.300 mag vs. .30-06

[streetstang67]

I see that many sniper rifles previoulsy only chambered in 7.62 NATO (.308), are now being chambered in .300 mag as well. This brings up the question: wouldn't .30-06 be the perfect balance between the two calibers?

All of these rounds are .30 caliber, the .300 mag holds considerably more powder than the .308, and the .30-06 seems to be the perfect medium. What do you think?

Edit: I'm not wanting to 'snipe' anybody, rather I'm trying to confirm that the .30-06 is simply the best all around cartridge, and I wonder why the military doesn't seem to agree.

 

[kmrcstintn]

it's depends on what you are going to 'snipe'

I had to reread your posting several times before the thought of knocking off another human being left my mind and long distance shooting and long range game hunting entered; you need to edit your post and state your intentions so others don't get the wrong idea and report you

 

[Jim Watson]

The .308 was designed to give ballistics comparable to original .30-06. The '06 was later souped up a bit and can be driven even harder with current powders in strong actions. BUT it is still not enough more powerful than .308 for the Army to bother with another caliber in inventory. They apparently think the .300 Win Mag is. It is about all you can handle in a standard size rifle; something like a .338 Lapua is a monster magnum, never mind the .50 BMG.

As a hunting round, the heavily loaded '06 makes more sense to me. It has about all the recoil I want, magnums need not apply.

 

[USSR]

streetstang67,

Seven years ago, I asked myself the very same question. In a leap of faith, I had Jack Krieger build a tactical rifle in .30-06 for me, using nothing but the finest components.

In order to take advantage of the greater case capacity, I elected to use a heavier bullet (190SMK) and slow burning powder to give me highest possible velocity at safe pressure levels. My initial load development was with H4831SC and RL22 in Lapua brass. It soon became obvious that RL22 was THE powder, as the 4831 loads were a good 150fps slower. I found a very accurate load in 60.4gr of RL22 at 2875fps. Later development with lightweight (and a larger case capacity) Norma brass resulted in a load of 61.4gr of RL22 at 2920fps. I took a 3rd place finish at 1,000 yards with this load last year. Conclusion: using heavy bullets and slow burning powder with the .30-06 can result in a load that can nearly match .300WM factory ammo, and leaves the .308 in the dust.

Don

 

[browningguy]

Each has its place, the '06 is a little bit more gun than the .308, and the .300 Win. is a little bit more gun than an '06.

I own a .308 in a Ruger 77 RSI, it makes a great little carbine and shoots 150 gr. bullets really well. I have three '06's, a BAR/HK SLB2000/Weatherby Vanguard, and one .300 Winny in a Mauser bolt action. So ,maybe I like the '06 a little more than the other two, but I like them all well enough.

 

[oregonhunter]

What has been used too kill more game. The 30-06, 300 mag or 308. I think you all know how that one ends, End of thread.

 

[Geronimo45]

.300 mag has a tad more 'oomph' than .30-06. Think it shoots a bit straighter at longer range - which is why you have various sniper setups, Walther 2000 among 'em, in that caliber.

 

[Zak Smith]

338 Lapua Magnum is likely to become the standard long-range sniper round for NATO countries. It is already used by the UK, Finland, Canada, Italy, Australia, Belgium, the Dutch, Ireland, Singapore, Slovenia, Swiss, Turkey, and some US units.

308 is a versatile little cartridge that fits in compact short-action rifles. There is some improvement to be had on these short-action rifles, such as switching from M118LR to a better bullet, or to a more overbore caliber like 260REM.

Stepping up to a long-action (3006, 300WM, 338 Lapua), there is a big jump in ballistic performance possible, yet the 300WM and moreso the 3006, have a hard time taking full advantage of this because to get above a 0.6 BC in 30 caliber, you have to step up to a 210gr bullet or heavier. These long-action rifles pay a penalty in length and weight to the short-action rifles, so this cost needs to pay off in ballistic performance.

In the 300WM cartridge size, the bore size to look at for awesome LR ballistics is 7mm. The 7RM, with less case capacity than the 300WM, has much better ballistics due to the very high BC 168 to 180gr bullets.

Stepping up to the 338 Lapua, you now get superior exterior ballistics (ie, better than any rifle that weighs less than 25 lbs, e.g. 308, 416, or 50BMG) and fantastic terminal ballistics-- more power than 44RM at the muzzle, at 1200 yards.

Here is a table comparing some common LR cartridges

_Bullet_           _BC_ _MV_         0     200     400     600     800    1000    1200    1400    1600 | YARDS
50BMG 750AMAX     1.050 2660 >    0.00    1.30    5.36   12.46   22.89   37.00   55.17   77.85  105.43 | wind (inches)
338LM 300SMK      0.77* 2750 >    0.00    1.71    7.16   16.85   31.42   51.61   78.30  112.23  154.03 | wind (inches)
338LM 250SCNR     0.675 2950 >    0.00    1.78    7.45   17.61   32.96   54.37   82.86  119.34  164.57 | wind (inches)
7RM 180gr VLD     0.698 2850 >    0.00    1.80    7.55   17.82   33.31   54.88   83.49  119.96  164.95 | wind (inches)
7RM 168gr VLD     0.648 3000 >    0.00    1.81    7.60   18.01   33.78   55.86   85.34  123.21  170.23 | wind (inches)
300WM 210gr VLD   0.640 2850 >    0.00    1.97    8.30   19.69   37.03   61.36   93.79  135.24  186.03 | wind (inches)
300WM 190gr SMK   0.53* 3000 >    0.00    2.22    9.45   22.66   43.21   72.73  112.92  164.66  227.12 | wind (inches)
3006 190gr SMK    0.53* 2850 >    0.00    2.39   10.18   24.47   46.77   78.78  122.02  176.67  241.27 | wind (inches)
308 155 Scenar    0.508 2850 >    0.00    2.52   10.75   25.91   49.59   83.51  128.98  185.82  252.36 | wind (inches)
308 175 M118LR    0.51* 2600 >    0.00    2.94   12.62   30.61   58.93   99.18  151.45  214.00  285.09 | wind (inches)

50BMG 750AMAX     1.050 2660 >   -0.00    1.55    6.42   12.11   18.46   25.48   33.26   41.89   51.50 | drop (moa)
338LM 300SMK      0.77* 2750 >   -0.00    1.44    6.21   11.99   18.69   26.41   35.35   45.76   57.90 | drop (moa)
338LM 250SCNR     0.675 2950 >   -0.00    1.15    5.32   10.50   16.60   23.76   32.19   42.18   54.06 | drop (moa)
7RM 180gr VLD     0.698 2850 >   -0.00    1.29    5.78   11.30   17.78   25.34   34.22   44.68   57.04 | drop (moa)
7RM 168gr VLD     0.648 3000 >   -0.00    1.08    5.14   10.21   16.21   23.30   31.72   41.77   53.81 | drop (moa)
300WM 210gr VLD   0.640 2850 >   -0.00    1.31    5.89   11.60   18.39   26.45   36.08   47.62   61.43 | drop (moa)
300WM 190gr SMK   0.53* 3000 >   -0.00    1.13    5.40   10.91   17.70   26.09   36.56   49.67   65.87 | drop (moa)
3006 190gr SMK    0.53* 2850 >   -0.00    1.36    6.17   12.36   20.01   29.51   41.39   56.20   74.30 | drop (moa)
308 155 Scenar    0.508 2850 >   -0.00    1.38    6.25   12.59   20.51   30.42   42.89   58.46   77.43 | drop (moa)
308 175 M118LR    0.51* 2600 >   -0.00    1.87    7.94   15.85   25.85   38.55   54.55   74.20   97.56 | drop (moa)

50BMG 750AMAX     1.050 2660 >    2660    2494    2335    2182    2035    1894    1759    1631    1513 | velocity (fps)
338LM 300SMK      0.77* 2750 >    2750    2520    2302    2094    1898    1712    1540    1387    1256 | velocity (fps)
338LM 250SCNR     0.675 2950 >    2950    2678    2422    2181    1955    1744    1550    1380    1237 | velocity (fps)
7RM 180gr VLD     0.698 2850 >    2850    2592    2349    2120    1905    1704    1521    1359    1225 | velocity (fps)
7RM 168gr VLD     0.648 3000 >    3000    2714    2445    2193    1957    1737    1537    1362    1217 | velocity (fps)
300WM 210gr VLD   0.640 2850 >    2850    2570    2307    2060    1831    1618    1431    1270    1145 | velocity (fps)
300WM 190gr SMK   0.53* 3000 >    3000    2655    2334    2038    1762    1513    1302    1142    1033 | velocity (fps)
3006 190gr SMK    0.53* 2850 >    2850    2515    2206    1917    1652    1418    1227    1090     998 | velocity (fps)
308 155 Scenar    0.508 2850 >    2850    2500    2176    1880    1610    1379    1195    1067     982 | velocity (fps)
308 175 M118LR    0.51* 2600 >    2600    2261    1950    1664    1414    1214    1075     983     917 | velocity (fps)

 

[Charshooter]

For long-range target shooting, this may be true, but I can say that for hunting, the 30-06 or the 7 magnum are close, while the 300 magnum has an advantage and today, I think it works about as well as a 338 Win Mag, other than for close shooting in bear country, where the medium bore has an advantage.

 

[glockman19]

Based on the choices I'd say 30-06. But as Zack says their are other calibers also. Depending on target.

 

[Essex County]

With Rifles and High Maintence Women..........

There are always trade offs. Some may be worth it and some not. Years ago I went through my .300 Magnum phase. My last was a .300 WSM. I'm just as happy now with my 30-06's. They sound great on paper, but in real life I can do without the recoil and muzzel blast...........Essex

 

[Lucky]

Zak that chart is what I've wanted to see for a long time, you rock! But I'm having trouble copying it, any chance you could put it on as a downloadable attachment?

 

[Oohrah]

Been there, done that !!! Early on in Nam the rifle was
Win. Mod. 70 in 30-06. Various glass, it got her done
and did good. Should shots go beyond 1000. The 50s
would be top choice. Hard to find someone to hump one!
A hit does not require a double tap follow up as some would
have you believe is necessary. Results have been filmed and
it's awsome!

 

[TCB in TN]

Tried all three and it really just depends on what you really want. I personally like the 30-06. IMHO it has the best balance for me. I have taken deer over 200 yards with each. Did a little target shooting (out to 500 yards) and there really wasn't much difference in accuracy for me.

 

[Buckskinner]

Its the same bullet, just going faster or slower...

...depending on how much powder you use. I got rid of my .300 WM because it wasn't cost effective to shoot over 70 gr. of RL22 per pull. The '06 shoots just fine (if a bit slower) over less than 55gr...

But .308 is .308 is .308...'06 brass is easier to find, more versatile than a .308 Win., and whether its out of my M1, 1903, M77, M700 or M70, I"m good to go.

 

[Zak Smith]

Lucky,

You can cut and paste it.

-z