.38+P in Model 10-5?

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ArmedBear

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There have been comments made in passing, in other threads, about changes in the SAAMI spec for .38 Special over the years. The gist was that an old steel frame .38 ought to handle +P without any trouble, whether or not it's marked "+P".

I just picked up a Model 10-5, and I'm wondering if anyone can elaborate?

What do you think about +P in the Model 10?

1. Okay for defense load, but don't overdo it.
2. Okay for regular shooting.
3. Not okay. Do not load +P rounds in any Model 10.

Thanks in advance for any good info.
 
A good general rule of thumb is that any model number marked S&W revolver chambered in .38 Special is ok for at least limited use of +p ammo.
 
from the manual:

“Plus-P” (+P) ammunition generates pressures in excess of the
pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures
may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety
built into some revolvers and could therefore be DANGEROUS.
This ammunition should not be used in Smith & Wesson
medium (K frame) revolvers manufactured prior to 1958. Such
pre-1958 medium (K-frame) revolvers can be identified by the
absence of a model number stamped inside the yoke cut of the
frame. (i.e., the area of the frame exposed when the cylinder is in
the open position.

“Plus-P-Plus (+P+) ammunition must not be used in Smith &
Wesson firearms. This marking on the ammunition designates that
it exceeds established industry standards, but the designation
does not represent defined pressure limits and therefore such
ammunition may vary significantly as to the pressures generated.
Click to expand...
 
My understanding, is that .38 Special '+P+' should only be used in Revolvers already chambered for the .357 Cartridge, and never in any erstwhile regular .38 Special Revolver.


And that "+P"s are fine in a Model 10...or other numerical Model name S & W.
 
My 640 is stamped "tested +P+. It's a .38 too. I've shot hundreds of the old treasury load out of it with no ill effects.
 
just picked up a Model 10-5, and I'm wondering if anyone can elaborate?

What do you think about +P in the Model 10?
Click to expand...

I personally think that you'll wear out before the revolver does, so long as it is factory +P.

From Wiki (not that it's the last word, but here it is anyways):
Beginning with the Model 10-5 series in the late 1960s, the tapered barrel and its trademark 'half moon' front sight were replaced by a straight bull barrel and a sloped milled ramp front sight. Late model Model 10s are capable of handling any .38 Special cartridge produced today up to and including +P+ rounds.

FWIEW, I have run thousands of 158+P rounds through a model 64 with no issues.
 
+1 for +P.

How else are you gonna make IDPA power factor or take down those steel targets, eh?

my 14 and 10 both get +P, tho now mostly just the 10.

-Daizee
 
Well, I personally wouldn't, but that's me. I think it may lead to excessive wear. It won't blow up on you, though.

A good general rule of thumb is that any model number marked S&W revolver chambered in .38 Special is ok for at least limited use of +p ammo.
Click to expand...

Unless you're talking an old aluminum Airweight. I'd be seriously worried about one of those blowing up with +P. They were cut down to the safe minimum standards to be as light as possible when they were produced in the 1970's. Note that they no longer make them out of aluminum (but they do still make them, otherwise unchanged), which I also take as a very strong hint that you should not use hot loads in them. The newer ones are scandium alloys and specifically say +P on them.
 
Most of what this gun will see will be handloads, and I have no particular reason to load +P handloads.

I don't need to cause excess wear and tear, as Mike says, even if it would be a brand new gun with +P stamped on it, instead of a 40-year old .38.:)

It just seems like a perfectly acceptable "nightstand gun' when it's not being used for practice, and I already have a box of overpriced fancy-pants defensive rounds in +P.

WRT factory +P, yeah, even if I do load some +P myself, I'm not interested in pushing to see how hot I can make it. I've got a .357 Blackhawk that fills that niche (both that and the 10 were relative bargains from the "used" case at gun shops).

Thanks again, all.:)
 
Made 1942. Fired countless rounds. Put 500 +Ps and 600 +P+s through it for effect. None... as expected.

ANY decent 38 Special is "+P rated" since +P is loaded below maximum pressure. Notion of +P as powerful is the biggest myth since Bigfoot.

standard.jpg
 
Notion of +P as powerful is the biggest myth since Bigfoot.
Click to expand...

Oh I know. +P is a joke. I think that it was a spec developed because there are some REALLY old .38s out there, that were already substandard when they were built.

Neither the pressure nor the velocity are much different from standard. It's just easier to find good defensive ammo in +P these days.:)
 
You miss the point.

Nobody said a .38 Spl couldn't be handloaded to be fairly powerful.

The load you listed is way over anything from Remington or Winchester in +P though. It is more like the old 38/44 Hi-Speed load.

The factories advertise all of 890 FPS out of a +P 158 grain LSWC. They get closer to 850 or less in a real gun though.
That is real close to a standard pressure 158 grain load 25 or so years ago.

The point is, todays neutered +P is yesterdays standard load, and the old guns are perfectly fine for shooting them.

rc
 
The factories advertise all of 890 FPS out of a +P 158 grain LSWC. They get closer to 850 or less in a real gun though. That is real close to a standard pressure 158 grain load 25 or so years ago
Click to expand...

rc, what is the pressure of this current +P load? tnx
 
Corbon used to make the only real +P 158 LSWCHP (labeled as +P+, about a 1000 fps out of 4 inches of model 10/64), I was told that it was basically a duplicate of a load once issued to the RCMP.

dudley_doright.gif


"1000 FPS!!!"

Now it seems that this particular 350fpe torch has been passed to buffalo bore...

I forgot to mention that about 500 rounds of the thousands of "FBI" load that I sent through my 64 were corbon's "+P+". They didn't even begin to shake anything loose either. If it's steel, K-Frame, and made sometime after the war, we can probably worry about our 401ks or our prostates or something more concerning.
 
rc, what is the pressure of this current +P load? tnx
Click to expand...
Several years ago, SAAMI spec was:
.38 Spl. - 17,000 PSI
.38 Spl. +P - 20,000 PSI
.357 Mag - 40,000 PSI

Current SAAMI spec is now:
.38 Spl. - 17,000
.38 Spl +P - 18,500
.357 Mag - 35,000

rc
 
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