.38 sp. Berry's 148 HBWC: need advice

[1KPerDay]

I've read this: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=380936

I've read this: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=581359



Need advice on OAL and crimp. I have removed the sizing ring from my FCD. I have red dot, 231 and herco. I read that some have used a larger charge with these than you would with lead to get accuracy.

 

[noylj]

What is diameter of the plated bullet? If it is 0.357-.358", then you didn't need to remove the carbide ring from the FCD.
I don't remember much about the ones I bought years ago, other then they produced shotgun-like pattern at 25 yards, so I don't recall if they had crimp-grooves.
If they have crimp grooves, then you crimp in the groove and have maybe 1/4" of the bullet in the throat of the cylinder. You want to seat the bullet so the case mouth is almost to very top of the crimp groove.
If they don't have any crimp groove, then you load the bullet just barely below the case mouth and roll crimp so there is no sharp edge at the case mouth.
Very little roll crimp is needed.
You should trim all your cases to the same length so the roll crimp will be uniform and not buckle a case or damage a bullet. You do not want to cut into the plating.

 

[GLOOB]

+1 to seat the bullet all the way down and crimp over the edge. That's what I did.

W/e you read in the manuals for a cast lead WC, I'd start at or near the max load. The Berrys plated bullets need more powder than cast bullets. You would usually use mid level JACKETED data for Berrys. But there's no such thing as a jacketed WC, so you have to improvise. Source: I have stuck a Berrys 148gr DEWC, using a start load of W231.

What is diameter of the plated bullet? If it is 0.357-.358", then you didn't need to remove the carbide ring from the FCD.

Well, tell that my bullets. Actually, it's the brass that can vary quite a bit. If you end up with some thick cases, the FCD will squish the bullets. But then at least they will chamber.

 

[PO2Hammer]

If you do seat them long, you will need to bump the charges up.
The only bullet I ever stuck in a barrel was a .357" plated 148 DEWC. I seated the bullets out to 1.435" in .357 brass. Using lead data for a cast DEWC I loaded up 5 at a starting load +.2 grains. I thought the .2 grains would help compensate for seating long. Not nearly enough. The first bullet went 271 fps, the second one stuck in the bore.

 

[Walkalong]

As I have posted before, using starting lead data for plated bullets can get you in trouble, cause the are not lead. This is especially true with the long bearing surface of 148 Gr WCs and 158 Gr SWCs.

The good news is even seated long the plated WC leaves just a little case capacity and powders tend to burn well and not suffer much from varying case position.

I shot some Berrys 148 Gr WCs loaded like the pic in the posted link with 3.6 Grs Competition. They give about 725 to 750 FPS depending on the gun and barrel length. WST, Solo 1000, 700X, etc all work as well. Not match accuracy, but shoot clay pigeons at 40 yards just fine.

 

[1KPerDay]

The sizing ring was causing trouble with my crimps using lead wc and rn. My primary concern is whether to seat flush or seat long. Common wisdom says flush, but gentlemen whose opinions I trust say seat long. Several people have said to use higher charges than "normal" wcs would require. 3.5 231 was used by one gentleman for example, who used them in +P rated .38s and .357 s only.

 

[rfwobbly]

99.9% of all wad cutters are going to be seated flush. They all come with an ample radius on the end to accommodate the rolled case. But that's not to say that you couldn't seat longer. Some lead wad cutters have multiple groves that could be used for longer roll crimping. However, the Berry plated wad cutters come with no groves. That means that if you intend to load them long, then you might wish to consider the purchase of a 38/357 taper crimp die, because you absolutely do not want to roll crimp into the plated bullet and risk breaking through the plated surface.

In my way of thinking, one of the reasons flush-seated wad cutters work so well is because the bullet IS seated flush, thus reducing the internal volume for powder. Unless you're using a VERY low-density powder that requires extra room, I see no reason not to seat flush.

 

[1KPerDay]

Several respected high roaders have reported that these particular plated HBWC don't perform best seated flush. The Lee factory crimp die is a taper crimp die FYI. [EDIT: I may be wrong on this... see below]

 

[HexHead]

I just loaded those rounds a week or so ago. Used 4.0gr of 231, the max load for lead, set at 1.160" OAL, which is flush with the mouth of the case. They chrono'd at an average 760fps in my 4" Model 10.

 

[HexHead]

Several respected high roaders have reported that these particular plated HBWC don't perform best seated flush. The Lee factory crimp die is a taper crimp die FYI.

Why would Lee include a taper die in a 4-die set for .38 Special? Sure looks like a roll crimp on the rounds I just loaded to me, albeit a very light crimp.

 

[mdi]

If I were gonna use these bullets, I'd check Berry's website for loading suggestions. They won't give exact data, but suggestions on how to load (I believe they stated mid level jacketed loads). I'd ferget using any Lee FCD and go with a dedicated taper crimp die. I'd use loads a bit higher than starting loads for lead bullets and seat the bullets out, up to 3/16" or so, just for esthetic reasons (I believe wadcutters were first, or most commonly seated flush for S&W Model 52 shooting).

 

[1KPerDay]

Why would Lee include a taper die in a 4-die set for .38 Special? Sure looks like a roll crimp on the rounds I just loaded to me, albeit a very light crimp.

I may be misinformed... but my understanding is the pistol FCDs are all taper crimp dies. Of course the standard Lee seating/crimping die is a normal roll crimp type.

 

[1KPerDay]

I just loaded those rounds a week or so ago. Used 4.0gr of 231, the max load for lead, set at 1.160" OAL, which is flush with the mouth of the case. They chrono'd at an average 760fps in my 4" Model 10.

Thanks.

 

[Walkalong]

I did not find any .38 Spl data, but I tried the Berrys 148 Gr HBWC in .357 brass loaded to 1.400 OAL with a CCI 500 primer and it gave an Avg 670 FPS powder back and an Avg 580 FPS powder forward from a 6" barreled Trooper Mk III at 65 degrees. Borderline low. I like a minimum 600 FPS powder forward in a load like this.

 

[TonyT]

1Kperday,
I tried using the plated 148 gr. HBWC and found that with the normal charges for the lead bullet it produced much lower velocities. I worked up the loads using a chrono but could never get any bullseye level accuracy out of the loads iI tried with both Bullseye and W-231. I shot them up at steel challenge matches.

 

[1KPerDay]

Yeah, that's what I'm finding. I'm not going to publish my current loads but they are above some books' published max (for lead WC) and still feel quite light and powder is not burning cleanly. I need a chronograph. I didn't expect competition level accuracy from these; mostly just for banging steel and stuff. So as long as they work and have acceptable accuracy and are not dangerous I'm happy.