.45 ammo with less recoil/kick. Worth pursuing?

[srv656s]

I've been shooting a 1911 for years and carry one concealed. It fits my hands, shoots great, and is reliable. Recently, I've been shooting different handguns and realize that I just shoot 9mm faster and more accurately. With the .45, I'm just not quite as confident.

I started to think about getting a 1911 in 9mm but want to consider other options for my .45.

I have always shot 230 grain full power loads and have been kicking around the idea of going with 185 grain or something else. Just wanted to hear some opinions from other gun guy as to whether lighter loads will make much of a significant difference in felt recoil and follow up shots.

Thanks!

Shawn

 

[Sam1911]

There's several possible answers to your question.

If you're comparing .45 ACP 1911s to 9mm 1911s, then obviously the 9mm round is helping you shoot faster. 9mm 1911s are going to recoil less than .45 ACPs in any common loading.

If you're comparing your .45 ACP 1911 with other guns in 9mm, it is more likely that you simply find the other gun to fit you better. A heavy 1911 shooting a moderate .45ACP will have less felt recoil than a light polymer gun shooting a peppy 9mm.

A 230 gr. hardball load isn't a recoil beast by any stretch, but most competitive shooters seem to gravitate toward a 200 gr. cast lead semi-wadcutter with a light charge of fast powder like Clays. Lighter recoil and accurate -- just an all around great combination. Some do go to an even lighter bullet like the 185 gr. you mentioned, but not all guns feed them well.

What's your purpose with the gun? Most of the competition styles have certain requirements of velocity -vs.- bullet weight so a lighter bullet has to go heavier than a more massive one. Sometimes that can produce the opposite of your desired effect, though. Faster, higher-speed bullets may feel snappier and harsher in recoil.

If you're just plinking or square-range paper punching you can load anything you want. I've played with 200 gr. lead bullet loads with absurdly light charges of Clays (like 3.0 gr., IIRC) that recoiled a bit like a .22. Might have to switch to a "softball" 12 lb. recoil spring to make them cycle, but it sure won't beat you up!

 

[srv656s]

Overall, my focus is conceal carry. The gun has been my conceal carry weapon for the last 7 years now. I shoot it more than any other gun. I have reloaded for it and have created some nice light loads that are fun at the range. At the end of the day though, the factory loads are what I try to practice with from time to time so if I ever have to use the gun to defend myself I will be accustom to the recoil and kick.

Recently, I bought and shot some Gold Dot 230 grain ammo and it knocked my socks off. It's gotten rave reviews on the internet, but it was insanely loud, kicked like hell and made me jittery. I don't even think it was +P ammo. After that I started reconsidering .45 in general. I want to be supremely confident in my ability to hit what I'm aiming at. I figure 2 hits with a 9mm are better than 1 miss with a .45.

Thanks for your input

Shawn

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I load a lot of 200 gr SWC and 230 gr RN. I think there is a very noticeable difference in the recoil between the loads. I usually prefer the 200's.

 

[Sam1911]

Yup, two shots with a 9mm that hit what you're aiming at are a lot better than any number of misses with a .45.

The only way to know whether a 185 gr. load will feel like less of a handful is to buy some and try. As most light-bullet loads are going to be correspondingly higher-velocity (thus more powder) I'd expect the blast to get worse. Felt recoil may be better, may be worse.

9mm 1911s are usually expensive, and are thought by a large number of very respected pistol smiths to be tricky to make reliable. If you do get one, certainly put your gun and its mags through plenty of testing to make sure it will go bang -- (more than just once, too) -- when you need it.

I have to admit I'm surprised that you find the GD .45s that punishing. I am a bit concerned that something in your shooting technique may be hurting you. With a good, high grip and a proper weight-forward stance, most adults can be taught to handle a lot more recoil and blast than the venerable .45 puts out. Compared to a polymer .40 S&W (especially a compact or subcompact) or a J-frame with .357s, a heavy steel 1911 shooting any .45ACP load is a REAL pussycat.

 

[Redlg155]

If I'm not mistaken, Federal manufacturers a low recoil load that would suit you well.

Just looked it up- 165grain in 45acp.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=241451

Midway carries the ammo, but it is out of stock.

 

[srv656s]

To be clear, my 1911's not a standard, all steel 1911. It's got a lighter alloy frame and is 4". Definitely a little harder to handle than a full size 1911.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I'm of several minds on this and it is hard to lean one way or another without having seen you shoot...but I'll be happy to give it a try, if you're willing to answer some questions first.

First clarifications:
1. Are you comparing the recoil of the Gold Dots in the same gun that you have been shooting your light reloads through?
2. Have you changed your springs to help function with the light reloads?
3. How long (how many rounds) has it been since you've changed the recoil spring?

...on to technique.
1. Which style of grip are you using?
a. thumbs forward
b. thumbs up
c. thumbs locked down

2. How hard are you holding the gun?
a. are you trying to hold it down during recoil?
b. are you allowing it to rise and fall back on target?

3. Which stance are you using?

I was just out with a student today and we had the same discussion. I was explaining to him how the pressure curve differed between the .40 and the .45 and how it effected felt recoil.

Gold Dot 230gr loadings are not known to be especially punishing to the shooter. The powder it fairly fast to allow for shorter barreled guns that are so popular today. However any factory load will commonly be louder than handloads...especially if you've already spent the day shooting the lighter loads. It is like shooting .38spl wadcutters all day and closing out the day with a load of .357 Magnums.

the 185gr slugs, as long as you aren't tempted by +P loadings, will usually have less muzzle flip then the 230gr loadings. My old personal favorite is the Federal 185gr JHP...pretty soft shooting and accurate too.

If you are looking for another platform for the .45ACP, I've had very good luck with the Sig 220ST as a soft kicking gun...however, if you are willing to look at polymer framed guns, I think the softest kicking .45ACP I've shot in the last year was the S&S M&P45. It just has great egos that seem to add to it's shootability all out of hand to what you might think, given it's light weight.

Mt personal experience has been that 9mm 1911s, based on the .45ACP 1911 platform, are usually finicky about function...not something I'd look for in a carry gun

 

[AK103K]

I understand where youre coming from. I carried .45 1911's for most of my adult life, and switched about ten years ago now, and never looked back. At the time, I though 357SIG was the latest and greatest thunderbolt out there, but now realize, its just basically a 9mm +P+, so I went to 9mm, and now I shoot a lot more for a lot less than either the .45 or 357SIG.

I still shoot the old Commanders a couple of times a month, and I dont have any troubles shooting them, but I know I can shoot the Glock 17's and 26's, faster and longer, and put more rounds into where the sights are looking quicker, than I can with the .45's.

These days, with the advances in ammo, I dont think there is really a whole lot of difference between any of them with a good hit. Results with a good miss will still be the same.

 

[Smaug]

I shoot handloads consisting of Berrysmfg 185 gr. bullets and 5.8 gr. of HP38.

I'm finishing up some of the flat point ones; they feed OK, maybe 90%.

Berrys also makes a 185 gr. plated round nose that has the same shape as the 230 gr. round nose; it is just hollow in the base.

I find the recoil to be less than that of a full load 230 gr. Noise is about the same. A bit more flash.

Mind you, this is for practice.

Most self defense hollow point carry ammo in 185 gr. is going to be +P. I used to practice now and then with my HD ammo, Federal Hydra Shok 185 gr. +P. It kicks just as much as regular old 230 gr. ball.

If it comes time to defend yourself, I doubt you'll notice the recoil.

I'd advise you to just practice such that your first shot finds the mark. Carry a +P 185 gr. marketed as defense ammo, after you confirm it works.

 

[BCRider]

What about getting into some competition such as IDPA and use your present gun in that venue? Some of the issue is that a full house .45acp round is going to have more "presence" from a smaller compact gun than out of a regular 1911 or even a commander length. Yeah, the gun will kick around a bit more. But perhaps you're also responding to the recoil? Shooting in a match vs just regular paper punching practice can provide the sort of focus you need to shoot faster with less notice of the recoil. You may find that shooting in monthly matches restores your ability to mesh well with your present gun. Or perhaps buy this same or some other gun you like in 9mm and split your matches between shooting the two of them. Your scores will tell you what you need to know. Carry the one you shoot best in these matches.