45 Colt?

[41 Mag]

I've owned S&W's in .44 and .45 cal. I still have the .44's but not the .45's. Sorry, but I'm not a fan of the .45 Colt. The .44 is more accurate in most cases and can do almost anything the Colt can. I also have a dislike of cartridges that leave lots of air space when loaded.

There was also one time when I loaded a .44 Mag in the Colt, they're too close in size. I never fired it but that turned me against the cartridge.

Those that have the Colt like them but I bet they don't own a .44. If I were in the market for a .45 cal revolver I'd opt for the acp.

To be honest, I have found that the 45 Colt is every bit as accurate as my 44. As for air space, well that depends on what you stuff them with, and air space really has no bearing on accuracy or performance in most handgun calibers.

As for owning both the 44 and 45, yep have them both, actually I have two 45 Colts, a 41mag, and a 454. I can easily do everything with the 454 that any of the rest will do, but it's not so much being able to do something as much as having those other somethings to do it with.

 

[gspn]

but it's not so much being able to do something as much as having those other somethings to do it with

Great way to put it!

 

[mes227]

As for owning both the 44 and 45, yep have them both, actually I have two 45 Colts, a 41mag, and a 454. I can easily do everything with the 454 that any of the rest will do, but it's not so much being able to do something as much as having those other somethings to do it with.

I'm with you! I have several revolvers in each: .45Colt, .45acp (and of course .45AutoRim), 44Mag, .41Mag, one each .454Casull (which also chambers .45Colt), .460Mag (.454 Casull & .45 Colt), Governor (.45Colt. .45acp, .410), .460Rowland and .445SuperMag. Plus 4 1911s in .45acp. I love the big bores!

 

[tpelle]

When reloading, remember that the .45 Colt was originally designed for black powder. It's easily possible to push it way past the redline with smokeless powder. Elmer Keith found that out way back in the day, and is precisely why we have the .44 Magnum and not the .45 Magnum.

Having said that, I do love my .45 Colt Cimarron SA.

 

[USSR]

When reloading, remember that the .45 Colt was originally designed for black powder. It's easily possible to push it way past the redline with smokeless powder.

The .45 Colt's ability to handle smokeless powder is determined by the particular firearm that uses it, not the cartridge itself. In your case, with a Cimarron SA, you are pretty much restricted to low pressure smokeless loads.

Don

 

[41 Mag]

When reloading, remember that the .45 Colt was originally designed for black powder. It's easily possible to push it way past the redline with smokeless powder. Elmer Keith found that out way back in the day, and is precisely why we have the .44 Magnum and not the .45 Magnum.

Having said that, I do love my .45 Colt Cimarron SA.

I whole heartedly agree. There again however depending on the revolver manufacturer you can spruce them up a bit. The end thing I hope that folks will remember however is that no matter the firearm, the cases are still only built to withstand a certain pressure level. This is where I feel a LOT of folks fail to keep things in check when wanting to hotrod one.

 

[USSR]

Will the "weak cases" talk never end? They haven't made the balloon-head .45 Colt cases since the 1950's, and the modern solid-head cases are not engineered down to withstand only low pressure loads.:banghead:

Don

 

[Arkansas Paul]

the modern solid-head cases are not engineered down to withstand only low pressure loads.

I can attest to that!
I've put some stuff through my Blackhawk that scared the hell out of me. It was published stuff though, for Rugers, T/C, and Freedom Arms stuff of course.

I LOVE the .45 Colt and always will, but I like the .44 as well. I'll probably add one to the collection eventually. I want to get in to handgun hunting more seriously and want a revolver I can scope. I'm thinking maybe a Super Redhawk in .44 mag maybe.

 

[41 Mag]

Will the "weak cases" talk never end? They haven't made the balloon-head .45 Colt cases since the 1950's, and the modern solid-head cases are not engineered down to withstand only low pressure loads.

Don

I do not recall anyone mentioning the balloon head cases, and the modern ones do not have to be engineered "down" if they were never engineered "up" to begin with. The fact of the matter is they were designed to operate within a certain pressure limit as all cases are. This said the nominal pressure for a 45 Colt is not the same as a 454 Casull, nor a 44 magnum. You can get away with some loads, in some cases, for a while, but eventually it will bite your rear.

There are a ton of factors which can and do add to pressures in revolver cases. Just because YOU advocate it as being something EVERYONE should practice, doesn't make it proper. You can cliff dive all you want, it doesn't mean everyone standing there watching is in line to follow. Nor does it mean that just because you miss the cliff or the rocks in the water that the next fellow who figured it's safe will.

If I, or anyone else for that matter, wants high pressure loads they can easily be found moving up to the 454 and get all they want and then some. I can also shoot my Ruger to the nominal listed loads, and be perfectly fine with that.

 

[MyGreenGuns]

I got a 10mm fan to shutup about how HUGE his rounds were by putting a .45LC in his hand. He asked what I shot it out of while looking at my pile of longarms. He didnt say anything as I started blasting with a revolver.

 

[RalphS]

This is what Starline states on their website -

45 Colt Brass (Large Pistol primer) 1.273"-1.283" O.A.L.

Originally designed for use with blackpowder, the .45 Colt is one of the most powerful, commonly available handgun cartridges when loaded with smokeless powder. Our .45 Colt brass has been tested to .44 Magnum pressures in gun systems suitable for such loads.

Most of the hot loaded 45LC ammo manufacturers use Starline brass.

 

[USSR]

Thanks for that post RalphS. Something that some people don't realize is, the original .357 Magnum was the .38/.44 loaded in .38 Special brass, and the original .44 Magnum was EK's hot loads in .44 Special brass. The weakness in modern solid-head brass is not the case, it's the platform that they are fired in.

There are a ton of factors which can and do add to pressures in revolver cases. Just because YOU advocate it as being something EVERYONE should practice, doesn't make it proper.

Please, a quote where I advocate EVERYONE doing this. I am only saying that the limiting factor is the firearm, not the brass.

Don

 

[SAA]

The end thing I hope that folks will remember however is that no matter the firearm, the cases are still only built to withstand a certain pressure level. This is where I feel a LOT of folks fail to keep things in check when wanting to hotrod one.

Where are you getting this stuff? We aren't talking rifles here. The thin chamber wall in a revolver cylinder will give out LONG before any stupid brass case that is supported by it will!!!

 

[tpelle]

I probably wasn't clear enough in my comment regarding pushing the .45 Colt to too high of a pressure. I wasn't alluding to any weakness in the cartridge case, but possible weakness in the cylinder walls. My Cimarron depicted in my post above almost scares me when I open the loading gate and look at how thin the cylinder wall is! Especially considering that the locking notch cuts into that thinness even more.

I can see how Elmer Keith blew up a Colt SAA with heavy .45 Colt reloads!

If I were to want to heavy-load a .45 Colt I'd only shoot 'em in a Ruger!

 

[41 Mag]

Hey, you folks are free to load to what ever limit you feel prudent, but there is no since posting it in an open forum was what I was getting at. The mention of the "cylinder will give out long before any case", is plenty argument for me to bow out of this argument, you win.

I'm done, you obviously know way more than the 40'ish years of handloading experience I have. I just pity the poor soul who reads your post, and blows his wheel gun up in his face is all.

I just want to know one thing, where is your testing done on all this brass that guarantees it will handle the pressures you pushing to to. Starline brass is the only reference noted here, and there are quite few brands still left to mention. Even the Starline doesn't mention the "system" from which it was tested.

As for the rifle load nope we're not talking them at all and not sure why that was even prudent in this at all.

I have a Ruger, and it will handle plenty, but I also have a 454 which will handle plenty more. But why would I want to rag out the Ruger with a heavy, high pressure load, when I can simply shoot the 454.

If you want that type of spread on your loads why not go with the 454 to begin with where you can shoot lighter loaded 454 rounds, or even 45 Colt rounds, but you do not need to hot rod them just so you can say you did. But I guess that some folks have to say they been there done that and have the t-shirt to prove it.

 

[SAA]

Nothing here, move along please.

 

[SAA]

Hey, you folks are free to load to what ever limit you feel prudent, but there is no since posting it in an open forum was what I was getting at. The mention of the "cylinder will give out long before any case", is plenty argument for me to bow out of this argument, you win....I just want to know one thing, where is your testing done on all this brass that guarantees it will handle the pressures you pushing to to.

Tell you what, take a wimpy .45 Colt "cowboy" load that wouldn't blow up any cylinder ever made and detonate it in your hand. Afterall, the brass will contain the pressure, eh? Do you honestly believe that any load large enough to blow out a cylinder wall will be contained by the cartridge brass, no matter who made it? Brass vs. steel, no brainer.

I have a Ruger, and it will handle plenty,

So, which is it? The gun or the brass that makes this so? You're the dangerous one here, as you've been implying that a gun can withstand higher pressures if you just use the right brass. Ain't so, at least not in the past 40-ish years since all the brass made has been solid head. Even when a balloon headed case fails the cylinder still doesn't blow up. And, funny thing, I've seen plenty of brass split full length in the chamber, and guess what, the cylinder didn't blow up even though the brass utterly failed! Some big surprise, eh?

 

[DWFan]

The Rugers can handle up to 32 kpsi but, unless you are really into recoil or are going up against large dangerous animals, the S&W's loaded to .45 ACP pressures (21-23 kpsi) will do the job just as effectively. A Lyman #454424 255gr SWC at 1150 fps or RCBS 45-270-SAA 270gr SWC at 1000 fps are plenty potent.