5.45x39 vs 5.56

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

From all I've read the "cheap" odd mil-surp ammo is always short-lived. It eventually goes away and all we're left with is ammo that's even pricier than average ammo. Personally, I'm sticking with NATO chambered firearms for cost/availability. If/when NATO calibers change then I probably will to.

7.62x25 anyone? The big selling point of the AK 74 is the cheap ammo. Once that drys up, there will be a shortage of the ammo and it will be expensive for awhile then it'll probably come down in price to probably about the same as 5.56.

 

[NG VI]

7N6 that is being sold here in the US is obsolete in Russian service and has been superseded by 7N10 enhanced penetration round that is designed to fragment.

Interesting. So they regard the ammunition that has some mythic reputation as having excellent terminal effectiveness by way of light deformation and tumbling (all spitzer-type rifle bullets tumble if they don't significantly deform or fragment by the way guys, 5.45 is not special or unique in that regard) as obsolete, and replaced it with a load that behaves more like your typical 5.56 load?

Sounds to me like the 5.45 in it's original guise behaved like a poorly designed, non-fragmenting 5.56, and they have replaced it with a bullet that actually takes advantage of the wounding mechanisms available to a small caliber high-velocity rifle bullet.

 

[macadore]

How often have folks bought into a particular caliber because surplus ammo is cheap? I like saving money as much as anyone so I certainly understand. But... how many times has that cheap surplus ammo dried up leaving only the pricey stuff... or none at all?

Many years ago I heard that about the 9x19.

If I bought a firearm in a caliber with the primary purpose of saving money on surplus ammo then I'd buy enough of that ammo to keep me going for several years. That's money well-spent now to ensure ammo availability in the future.

As for buying a lot of ammo, as cheap as it is, why not a lifetime supply?

 

[M1key]

Interesting. So they regard the ammunition that has some mythic reputation as having excellent terminal effectiveness by way of light deformation and tumbling (all spitzer-type rifle bullets tumble if they don't significantly deform or fragment by the way guys, 5.45 is not special or unique in that regard) as obsolete, and replaced it with a load that behaves more like your typical 5.56 load?

Sounds to me like the 5.45 in it's original guise behaved like a poorly designed, non-fragmenting 5.56, and they have replaced it with a bullet that actually takes advantage of the wounding mechanisms available to a small caliber high-velocity rifle bullet.

In 1974, the 7N6 round worked fine. New 7N10 is designed for better penetration since todays soldiers are more likely to wear some type of body armor.

The "old" mil surp 5.45 and newer commercial ammo should be ideal for HD, since the round tends to more easily deflect and not overpenetrate.

My HD weapon carries 10 rounds of either Vmax, 7N6, or even commercial FMJ.

M

 

[wally]

7.62x25 anyone? The big selling point of the AK 74 is the cheap ammo. Once that drys up, there will be a shortage of the ammo and it will be expensive for awhile then it'll probably come down in price to probably about the same as 5.56

Wolf 5.45x39 is right now within $10-20/1000 of the price of Wolf 7.62x39 so if you don't want to shoot corrosive ammo the price premium over non-corrosive steel cased 7.62x39 or .223 is pretty tolerable.

I've stocked the 5.45x39 as deep as I have space to store it, but still shoot the non-corrosive stuff occasionally when I'm not sure I can clean the guns when I get home.

Privi 7.62x25 is available for about the same price as low end .40S&W or .45ACP ammo so again, I don't see the worry, but since I reload my Tok, CZ52, and 7.62x25 AR upper won't see much use after my stash of 7.62x25 is gone, but I sure do enjoy the cheap as reloading shooting without having to worry about finding my empties to reload in the meantime.

As I use up my 7.62x25 I make space for more 5.45x39

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Slightly off topic but how much does a basic Saiga rifle conversion cost? I'm trying to decide between a AR 15 Delton Kit build (have a receiver already) versus going the Saiga route?

 

[M1key]

no frills, about 120-130 dollars

M

 

[xxxleafybugxxx]

I see people talking about conversion kits.. what are they needed for?

 

[allaroundhunter]

I see people talking about conversion kits.. what are they needed for?

They make the stock Saiga's available to take aftermarket AK magazines (and a few other things I think)

 

[xxxleafybugxxx]

In the picture on Buds, the ak74's have a 30 rd mag in them...?

 

[Kurt_D]

if you want 5.45 buy all you need now while it's cheap. That is it's only advantage in the US, and what I did when it was $119 a tin with free shipping from CAI.

5.56 just has too many options for 5.45 to compete. There's OTM stuff for accuracy that also makes a great defensive round. There's bonded stuff to better penetrate barriers. There's balistic tip stuff that ensures there is no over penetration, etc. Even limiting it to mil-spec rounds - M193 yaws early and frags which does more damage, M855 yaws and frags all be it less consistant from 14.5" barrels than m193 and Mk262 is a better than all of them, nice long bullet which yaws early and frags at lower velocities not to speak of accuracy.

 

[aubie515]

I enjoy these types of threads because there is no ending to this debate.

What I find ironic is all of the ammo experts that keep on saying once surplus ammo for 5.45 dries up everyone that shoots 5.45 will be in trouble. Do you folks realize that not all 5.45x39 ammo isn't corrosive? There are companies producing this ammo currently and if the surplus does dry up, someone will step in to fill the void. That's called supply and demand...if there is a demand for a product in the market...companies will step in to fill that demand.

I've owned quite a few AR15s over the years...I dumped them all last year...I currently am using AK74s...what I can tell you is that there is such light recoil from shooting my AK74s. I'm a fan of the 5.45x39 round. I like 223 as well, but I just like the cost factor and give the edge to 5.45x39.

Truth be told, I wouldn't want to be shot with either caliber.

 

[nathan]

I just got me an East German bakelite mag , that be nice to go with my AK 74 Bulgarian.

 

[mortablunt]

Can somebody explain how the surplus ammo process works?
Is it ammo that Russia produced that it no longer uses?
If so, why not?p

Surplus ammunition works the same as surplus everything else; the production run was too large for the actual demand, so in order to save money on storing things and make back part of the investment, the excess product is sold to other buyers. This very typically happens in the aftermath of a war or some other armed conflict when suddenly, those large army sized orders of things are no longer needed. This is why the stuff is so cheap.

And what about the ammo they are producing currently for this caliber?
If I was scared about this ammo drying up, when I bought the rifle, I would maybe spend $5-600 on ammo tins and just save it.

The 5.45 nations are making their own ammunition or purchasing it from Russia, but the orders are smaller and designed to meet a fairly constant level of demand. The surplus will eventually dry up, resulting in there being a more expensive domestic supply of the ammunition.

 

[AethelstanAegen]

The 5.45 nations are making their own ammunition or purchasing it from Russia, but the orders are smaller and designed to meet a fairly constant level of demand. The surplus will eventually dry up, resulting in there being a more expensive domestic supply of the ammunition.

That's certainly possible, but I don't think you will find prices of 5.45x39 go much above that of 5.56. In addition to the current domestic producer there are several commercial Russian producers that could easily up production to fill the surplus void. The basic point is, we can't expect to pay $0.13 per round forever but it's certainly nice while it lasts and I'm not suddenly going to find I can't feed my WZ.88.