7.5 Swiss and 7.7 Japanese recipes

[aerod1]

I am looking for some good recipes in 7.5 Swiss for my Schmidt-Rubin and 7.7 Jap for my Arisaka.
I am primarily looking to download both of these. What are your favorite recipes?
Thanks!

 

[Storydude]

I've been having good luck in 7.5Swiss with 44.6G of Varget behind a 165G SPBT.

I started at 44G and worked up to 45.7. 44.6 gave me acceptable groupings, for minimal powder use.

 

[Canuck-IL]

Send me an IM w your e-mail and I'll ship you a spreadsheet and a pair of Word docs with of a couple 100 loads, with some discussion, that I've scraped from around the web ... mostly from SurplusRifle and the 2 Swiss army rifle sites.
/Bryan

 

[jwr_747]

in the K-31,I've had real good luck with just about any 150gr. bullet on top of 38.5grs. of IMR 4064,followed real close using 37.5grs. of IMR 3031. jwr

 

[fireflyfather]

Lee manual has load data for the 7.7 Arisaka. Or you can just go with the Ed Harris "13gr of red dot" under a standard weight bullet.

 

[Halo]

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the 7.7 Japanese is essentially a derivative of the .303 British. Loads for the .303 might give you a good starting point as far as good powder/bullet combinations go. As far as powder charge, would low end .303 loads be a good place to start?

 

[Paul "Fitz" Jones]

7.7 Jap is a copy of the 30/06 and the round was designed to keep US GI's from using it but Japs could use captured 06 ammo. My first reloading business was converting 06 to fire easier in the jap arisaka 7.7 brought home by GI's and I sold thousands of rounds. While in high school I was on the National Guard #1 Competition rifle team and the General made sure I had thousands of ammo for practice as he gave me 1,500 round cases of armor piercing. He cut orders to get me out of high school. I checked out a Guard jeep and headed with gas credit card to military bases all over California for matches getting ready for the State Championships.

Great fun

 

[Sport45]

I don't see how a 30-06 could chamber in a 7.7 rifle unless it had been reamed. The '06 is longer from the base to the shoulder than a 7.7 is.

My Arisaka was brought home from Guam by my dad when he deployed home after WWII. He had stories of GI's somehow filing '06 brass to use in the Arisaka. (He also said a .45acp would blow you off your feet if it hit you in the finger.) I think they were both popular tales at the time.

This Arisaka was not fired from the time he brought it home until about 1998 when he and I took it to the range with a box of Norma cartridges. Still have most of that brass but mostly shoot reformed '06 in it now. 174gr with IMR 4320 works pretty well.
.....................................................................
The Japs were smart as the Jap soldier could crawl at night and steal our ammo would place his rifle barrel on the toe of his shoe and force the 30/06 round in. Try it and you will see. It takes some effort. It was a survival idea that was used according to the General Hardy Commanding General of the Calif National Guard a WW2 veteran who was the senior member of the Guard #1 or best rifle team and it was the General, a colonel, captain and me Pvt Jones and I spent a lot of time with Hardy him at military matches around the state and at the State championships. The o6 bullet is smaller and the base and case rim smaller and I have done that and tied the rifle to a tree to fire it. As the war proceeded the quality of Jap rifles lessened as we bombed their source of chromium. Whenever someone wanted my ammo their barrels had to be tested by my night Gunsmithing instructor who was my day welding instructor in High school. Mr. Stutzman also was an authority on the jap proof marks and when they were made and printed a booklet on it. I did not load full power loads but enough to get deer as I did not like the drilled screw holes in the barrel just forward of the chamber to hold the rear sight that most fellows took off to have a Lyman rear installed further back. To me it was a weak point.

In the ammo Production I used a RCBS size die on the live round made for the purpose to pop the shoulder back, pulled the bullet trimmed the neck changed the powder charge to 40 gr. of the GI 4895, put the bullet back and at the range fireformed the cases. Then I would reload with a .311 SOFT NOSE bullet and .45 grains of IMR 4895 The 06 used 50 grains for 2,700 fps with a 150 gr, ball bullet.

Paul Fitz Jones
Moderator

 

[fireflyfather]

Halo: There's no need to start with load data for another cartridge. There are at least a couple loading manuals that have data for it. If you don't mind shooting medium loads, the Ed Harris load works fine too. I'm always leery of working up load data from a "similar cartridge". That's really something more for the experts.

 

[Sport45]

The Japs were smart as the jap soldier could crawl at night and steal our ammo would place his rifle barrel on the toe of his shoe and force the 30/06 round in. Try it and you will see. It takes some effort.

I'll take your word for it, but I don't think I'll be trying this in my Arisaka because of its sentimental value to me. What does the brass look like at the end of the process? Does it crumple behind the shoulder, or does it set the shoulder back and lengthen the neck as it would if it were lubricated and run through a sizing die? Was the fired brass hard to extract?

If they were getting close enough to steal our ammo why weren't they using it in our rifles? We didn't win every skirmish and surely they had access to plenty of battlefield pick-ups.

Please understand that I'm not arguing the issue, only curious. WWII is a fascinating piece of our history and my dad's stories only tell a very small part of it. He went through Army basic (says he liked the BAR best) then volunteered for AAC OCS. Assigned as B-29 navigator and flew the last missions of the war including the one documented on The History Channel as the longest. He was in the air on the return leg when Japan capitulated. (At least that's the term he's always used. I've never heard him say Japan surrendered.) He stayed in the reserves until he retired from the Air Force. I remember seeing him in uniform leaving to go to a reserve meeting every so often.

 

[Dave R]

For my K-31, I use 43gr. of H335 under a Sierra 150gr Gameking(?) lit by a CCI 250 primer.

I use reformed .284Win brass.

 

[Johnny Guest]

Language use changes over the years.

I received an e-mail which sort of got my attention:

Although it was considered alright in my father's day, and in mine, "jap" is now considered a racial slur ("disparaging and offensive" per the Random House dictionary). Ought to be spelled out "Japanese" in the title and in the threads here on THR.

I was not really aware of the derisive nature of the term. To me, "Jap" always seemed merely a shortened form of "Japanese." Our friends in the Great Britian don't take acception to being called "Brits." The citizens of Australia take no particular unbrage at being called "Aussies." It in no way equates with the use of some really foul and demeaning names I've seen for other former enemies of the USA, including Koreans, Vietnamese, Iraqis, Mexicans, and others.

Further, I've seen the term used in formal writing for many years. The only concrete example I recall was brought to mind by a previous poster's reference to Norma ammunition. I haven't seen any lately, but I clearly recall seeing the printed labels, "7.7 mm JAP," with bullet weight and code numbers below.

This is a good point at which to state that I have re-read this thread and I dont see any bigotry or racial prejudice in any of the posts. Any use of the term seemed merely discriptive of the particular Arisaka rifles or their ammunition.

It might be that I'm desensitized by the fact that my dad, in company with several million other allied service men, was put in a LOT of danger, discomfort, and other inconveniences by the Imoperial Japanese Empire. Strangely, I never heard him use any racial term other than Jap for our former enemies.

In any case, it meant enough to the member that he e-mailed me about it. In the context he wrote, I dont think he himself is Japanese. I believe he was just trying to be sensitive. Accordingly, I have posted this information and ask that we all be aware of how easy it is to make such an error.

With all due respect to all involved,
Johnny Guest
THR Staff
H&R Forum Moderator