7.62x54r
- Thread starter zamboxl
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Cacique500
Member
The two you posted SHOULD be non-corrosive as I believe they're 'modern' production.
Any milsurp 7.62x54R should be treated as corrosive since it normally is.
Any milsurp 7.62x54R should be treated as corrosive since it normally is.
ambush
Member
I was having this discussion on another board recently. There are several internet stores that sell surplus 7.62 x 54 ammo that claim its non-corrosive. No one could or was able to verify that claim and most seemed to think that all eastern bloc country surplus ammo is corrosive, I tend to agree. As stated above, most believe that commercial "modern" ammo is non- corrosive. My question is, if you do shoot corrosive surplus ammo and clean your guns the same day, how much damage can it be doing to the barrel? I've heard there are issues with "throat erosion"? Can anyone explain that??
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Anything that is clearly new production (Wolf, Brown Bear, Silver Bear) I'd consider noncorrosive. I know for a fact that Wolf is noncorrosive.
Military surplus stuff, it's harder to tell, and I'd treat milsurp as if it were corrosive unless personal testing proved otherwise. But Brown Bear should be OK.
Military surplus stuff, it's harder to tell, and I'd treat milsurp as if it were corrosive unless personal testing proved otherwise. But Brown Bear should be OK.
Ambush:: i curently shoot hungarian 1970 surplus light ball, i clean the rifle with hot hot water, then oil all metal parts with in 1 hour or two of leaving the range and i have not notice any corrosion what so ever, it might be there in small amounts that i cant pick up but to my naked eye the rifle looks fine.
O by the way i am 23 so my naked eye is in fine shape lol
O by the way i am 23 so my naked eye is in fine shape lol
B.D. Turner
Member
I tried some Silver Bear about six years ago and found it to be as corrosive as any other import on the market. It may have changed by now but don't trust the russians.
Reed1911
Member
Okay, Silver Bear and Brown Bear are 100% non-corrosive.
Nope, I'll bet you did not clean your rifle well enough or you had some surplus ammo in your shooting string that was corrosive and you did not realize it.
The East Bloc stopped making corrosive primers in the late 70's, the "bear" companies we not even a thought then.
Provided you clean the salt left from the primers, you will do no more damage with corrosive ammo than normal ammo.
Throat errosion is caused by hot powder gas and bits of unburned powder slowly eating away at the throat. The Throat is the transisition area between the chamber end and the begining of the rifiling. All calibers have throat errosion, it just depends on the amount due to shots fired and how much over bore the caliber is. I would not even begin to look for it until about 1.5K to 2K in the X54 unless you have a match rifle. Every shot adds to the errosion, but it will take a lot of shooting to see any degrade in accuracy.
Nope, I'll bet you did not clean your rifle well enough or you had some surplus ammo in your shooting string that was corrosive and you did not realize it.
The East Bloc stopped making corrosive primers in the late 70's, the "bear" companies we not even a thought then.
Provided you clean the salt left from the primers, you will do no more damage with corrosive ammo than normal ammo.
Throat errosion is caused by hot powder gas and bits of unburned powder slowly eating away at the throat. The Throat is the transisition area between the chamber end and the begining of the rifiling. All calibers have throat errosion, it just depends on the amount due to shots fired and how much over bore the caliber is. I would not even begin to look for it until about 1.5K to 2K in the X54 unless you have a match rifle. Every shot adds to the errosion, but it will take a lot of shooting to see any degrade in accuracy.
ambush
Member
This is kinda the way the thread ran on the other board....no real definative answer. I guess the only way to be sure is to thoroughly clean the gun as soon as possible after shooting surplus (or other ammo of questionable origin). I'm currently using copperwashed steel cased with berdan primers (russian ammo) that was said to be non-corrosive in the ad. Shoots real fine for ball milsurp, but I'm not taking any chances. Give that bore a real scrubbin'! Along that note, I ordered some Gunzilla solvent, read some good stuff about it.
Thanks for the explaination Reed1911!
Thanks for the explaination Reed1911!
B.D. Turner
Member
I believe I have a round left. I will post the headstamp if I have it. Shooting corrosive has never been a problem you just clean it when you get finished. I like using a 50/50 mixture of alcohol and 409 it works and have never had a problem. I wouldn't have had a problem this time if I had cleaned insead of trusting what they printed on the box.
Ash
Member
The rule of thumb at one time was if it was berdan primed, it was corrosive, regardless of whether or not it was commerical. MFS 7.72x54r 150 grain soft points was certainly corrosive, as was the bulk of early Barnaul 204 grain soft points. Early Wolf commercial ammo was also corrosive, but it is evidently not anymore. Have a care with any earlier (say, late 1990's) commericial steel case berdan primed 7.62x54r ammo. Brass cased boxer has, as far as I know, been non-corrosive anytime in the last 1/2 of the 20th Century.
Ash
Ash
silverlance
Member
surplus rifles
www.surplusrifles.com
has a REALLY good article where the author tests about 30 different types of cleaning agents on corrosive potassium cholarate saltes (corrosive ammo accelerating agent).
very eye opening. to summarize:
the two top cleaners were outers (foam i believe) and good old windex. he claimed that the ammonia in windex does nothing, but many disagree and argue that ammonia neutralizes while water dissolves.
HUMIDITY is WAAAY more important than cleaner when determining whether or not your bore will rust. basically this means that if you are keeping your gun in a safe you better have lots of dessicant.
a piece of angle iron that was not even cleaned at all after salt exposure showed nearly no corrosion when left in an environment with 20% humidity. at 99% the thing looked like mud.
i am going to buy about 6 bags of dessicant for each of my safes accordingly. right now i have only 3 per safe.
www.surplusrifles.com
has a REALLY good article where the author tests about 30 different types of cleaning agents on corrosive potassium cholarate saltes (corrosive ammo accelerating agent).
very eye opening. to summarize:
the two top cleaners were outers (foam i believe) and good old windex. he claimed that the ammonia in windex does nothing, but many disagree and argue that ammonia neutralizes while water dissolves.
HUMIDITY is WAAAY more important than cleaner when determining whether or not your bore will rust. basically this means that if you are keeping your gun in a safe you better have lots of dessicant.
a piece of angle iron that was not even cleaned at all after salt exposure showed nearly no corrosion when left in an environment with 20% humidity. at 99% the thing looked like mud.
i am going to buy about 6 bags of dessicant for each of my safes accordingly. right now i have only 3 per safe.
FWIW
Someone somewhere has stated that the Igman is 'mildly' corrosive, that is, you will see light rust forming just outside of the 'corrosive' definition time window of a couple days. I wouldn't worry, as long as some CLP or oil is applied after a good bore-snaking.
Where I live in the PNW is fairly dry throughout the summer, so we've never had trouble with rusting barrels, though we do clean thoroughly- Outers bore foam for an hour or so, then Birchwood Casey bore scrubber on patches and a brush, patch dry and oil. The basement we keep the guns in is bone dry as well, so that helps too.
Anything current by Wolf should be perfectly safe, I've only ever used a boresnake and CLP after shooting Wolf in all of my firearms.
Someone somewhere has stated that the Igman is 'mildly' corrosive, that is, you will see light rust forming just outside of the 'corrosive' definition time window of a couple days. I wouldn't worry, as long as some CLP or oil is applied after a good bore-snaking.
Where I live in the PNW is fairly dry throughout the summer, so we've never had trouble with rusting barrels, though we do clean thoroughly- Outers bore foam for an hour or so, then Birchwood Casey bore scrubber on patches and a brush, patch dry and oil. The basement we keep the guns in is bone dry as well, so that helps too.
Anything current by Wolf should be perfectly safe, I've only ever used a boresnake and CLP after shooting Wolf in all of my firearms.
Reed1911
Member
I realize you are just saying "someone", but the term mildly corrosive is akin to being "kinda pregnant". Either it is or not, either hydoscopic salts are formed when the primer ignites or they are not. No middle ground about it.
I don't know where the windex method came from, but it does work well. I have seen no difference with or without the ammonia and I agree that it has more to do with the water flushing the deposit more than the ammonia acting as a nutralizer. Although the detergent in Windex and 409 I'm sure help. Hot water works well, as does cold water, but the hot water will steam off pretty quick whereas the cold water will need to be flushed out very very well.
_N4Z_
Member
hey?
Ron, have you guys got an actual store at that location?
Might have to drop by and check you out the next time I'm in the city.
Ron, have you guys got an actual store at that location?
Might have to drop by and check you out the next time I'm in the city.
rangerruck
Member
non . the bronw bear may or maynot be reloaded once if it is brass, if it is steal and lacquered, then not.
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