8mm-06

[tahoe2]

any owners of this wildcat ? What action are you using ? How do you like it ?
Comparable to a .338? or .325 WSM?

 

[Jim Watson]

I don't have one, but have read of them for a long time and it is no magnum. It is usually seen as an 8x57 Mauser with the chamber reamed to take .30-06 brass necked up to 8mm. The idea was to alter the surplus gun once instead of having to form all your cases, I guess. Power about the same as a .30-06 or the 8x60 Mauser sporting round that got popular after WW I when 8x57 manufacture by the losers was restricted.

 

[Kachok]

Just my $.02 I would go .338-06 over 8mm-06 for no other reason then the better bullet selection in .338 cal.

 

[Art Eatman]

It was a fairly common post-WW II conversion. If you learn the trajectory, it will easily do in deer and elk on out as far as your skill will allow. Not as flat-shooting as many others, but that's irrelevant in a world full of laser range-finders.

It's one of those deals where I wouldn't build one, but if I ran across a nice conversion in good shape and at a good price, I'd not turn it down.

 

[jmr40]

The 338-06 is an easier conversion, better bullets and a better choice in my opinion. Of course I have no doubt an 8mm-06 will work just fine if someone just wants to be different.

I have no data on the 8mm-06 ballistics, but my 338-06 shoots 200- 225 gr bullets only about 75 fps slower than possible with a 338 Win mag. Of course with 275-300 gr bullets it simply cannot come close. We're talking 200-300 fps slower than the mag.

 

[Kachok]

I do have load data for the 8mm-06 from Nosler #6, with a 55.5gr charge of IMR 4350 you can get about 2628 fps with a 200gr bullet. While that is plenty of energy for any deer or elk ,the 30-06 pushes a 200gr just a little bit faster reaching 2688fps. 35 Whelen is a good choice too if you like the 06 family of cartrages. the 35 can push a 225gr bullet to over 2800fps.

 

[hang fire]

I had a 8mm-06 conversion done back in 1963. I sent a 30-06 Lee Classic whackem loader to Lee and asked if they could open neck up to 8mm. They did and at no charge, even for shipping.

IIRC, I used a 125 grain bullet at over 3100 fps for varmints, I know it could almost make a yote explode.

 

[Jimro]

It becomes a handload only proposition, 8mm-06, which at best will give you a tad more velocity than a handloaded or eurospec 8x57.

That being said, if you have an old Mauser 98 that has a shot out throat, reaming to 8mm-06 will push the throat out far enough to get new life on the barrel. And if about 150-200fps max advantage over the 8x57 is important to you by all means go for it.

Jimro

 

[Kachok]

^ Not so, by my figures they are at a statistical tie for performance with the 8x57 being slightly faster with 200gr class bullets and the 8mm-06 being slightly faster with 180gr class bullets. The old 8x57 is more potent then most people realize with modern powders.

 

[Jimro]

^ Not so, by my figures they are at a statistical tie for performance with the 8x57 being slightly faster with 200gr class bullets and the 8mm-06 being slightly faster with 180gr class bullets. The old 8x57 is more potent then most people realize with modern powders.

I would really love to see your figures. COL Atkins managed to push a 150gr bullet over 3100 fps with the 8mm-06, which is about 200fps faster than the 8x57 can safely (or even unsafely) push a 150 grain projectile. PO Ackley pushed a 225gr bullet to 2515fps, which is just about 80fps under the velocity of an 8x57 pushing a 196gr bullet.

I ain't saying you are wrong, just saying I'd like to see your figures that prove two cartridges that can operate at the same pressure rating gives a ballistic advantage to the case with the lower volume. That is literally like saying the 308 beats the 30-06 with heavier bullets but the 30-06 has an advantage with 150 grainers?

Jimro

 

[Kachok]

^ Here you go. Directly from Nosler #6
180gr max loads
8x57 49gr Varget 2669fps
8mm-06 56gr H380 2763fps

200gr max loads
8x57 52gr IMR 4350 2698fps
8mm-06 55.5gr IMR4350 2628fps

Both were tested with a 24" barrel. I find it interesting that the 8x57 edged out the 8mm-06 using a slightly smaller charge of the exact same powder, and it is faster with a 200gr then it is with a 180gr.

 

[Jimro]

Those numbers look at best to be a tad generous for the 8x57 with 200 grain bullets.

From Hdgdon's data. 200gr loads
200 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon H4350 .323" 2.970"
49.0 2276 35,900 CUP 54.0C 2522fps 44,800 CUP

200 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon H4895 .323" 2.970"
38.0 2240 36,800 CUP 45.4 2539fps 49,200 CUP

From Vihtavouri's data. 200gr loads
N150 44.1gr 2231fps , 49.2gr 2503fps
N160 50.5gr 2234fps , 56.2gr 2575fps

I'm not saying that your manual is wrong, just that it doesn't seem to reflect the reality of comparing different length cartridges with the same bore diameter such as 358 Win, 9x57, and 35 Whelen or 7mm-08, 7x57, and 280 Rem.

Jimro

 

[Kachok]

^ Remember Nosler load data is full pressure spec, while others I have used are much more conservative. In fact Nosler is the only one I have found to publish modern action pressure loads for old cartrages like the 6.5x55. Load data from Serria and others often reflects max loads to be well under factory load performance.

 

[jmr40]

How old is that manual? Every reloading manual suggests to only use info from the newest manuals and discard old information. This is not just to keep the lawyers happy. It is because it is impossible to manufacture every batch of powder exactly the same. The properties of a given powder manufactued in 1980 and the exact powder made in 2012 may have changed slightly. As well as slight changes in bullets over the years. Loads printed in 1980 may have been perfectly safe with powders and bullets made at that time. The same load, bullet, and powder made today could be an overload.

 

[Quat]

I have a 338-06.
My $0.02 is that it is just right for larger game hunting in north american hunting if you hand load.
Handloading, I lost about 75-100fps over handloaded 338 win mag in equal barrel length, while burning 10-14 grains less powder.
I can see an advantage to the 338 win mag in long distance shooting or heavier bullets. However for a for a hunting rifle, capping the range at 3-400 yards, the increased recoil in a same-weight rifle doesn't really gain much of practical use.
Cases are very easy to make from 30-06.
Most of that applies to the 8mm-06, but the bullet selection is better with a 338-06, and its a bit faster with heavier bullets.

 

[Kachok]

How old is that manual? Every reloading manual suggests to only use info from the newest manuals and discard old information. This is not just to keep the lawyers happy. It is because it is impossible to manufacture every batch of powder exactly the same. The properties of a given powder manufactued in 1980 and the exact powder made in 2012 may have changed slightly. As well as slight changes in bullets over the years. Loads printed in 1980 may have been perfectly safe with powders and bullets made at that time. The same load, bullet, and powder made today could be an overload.

That is their newest manual published in 2008. Nothing old and dangerous about that, I have used their loads for years in several cartrages and have yet to have as much as a cratered primer. So when the Hogoden manual tells me that I cannot match factory performance with a 270 WSM, and my 6.5x55 cannot exceed 2500fps with 140gr, I cannot help but laugh because I leave that in the dust with zero pressure signs.

 

[MachIVshooter]

It's weaker than the .325 WSM, and is certainly no 8mm Rem Mag., but it will afford you about 100 FPS advantage over 8x57. It's perfectly capable of killing anything on this continent, and there's a pretty decent selection of .323" bullets available. 180-200 gr. will probably be your best bet.

 

[Jimro]

So when the Hogoden manual tells me that I cannot match factory performance with a 270 WSM, and my 6.5x55 cannot exceed 2500fps with 140gr, I cannot help but laugh because I leave that in the dust with zero pressure signs.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean it is wise to do so.

Most data sources separate 6.5x55 into "milsurp" and "modern action" data for the 6.5x55, although Hodgon doesn't. With a modern action I wouldn't be afraid at all of hitting 2,800 fps with a 6.5x55. I wouldn't do that out of my M96 or M38, my 140gr load is a sedate 2,400 fps.

Even then, the strength of the old M96 action wasn't the issue, it was the gas handling (or lack thereof) properties of the action. In case of a rupture hot gas could shoot straight back into the shooters eyes. Hence the low pressure loads for the old guns, a "just in case" safety factor.

But if you trust your data source and it has never failed you I truly hope that things stay that way.

Jimro

 

[tahoe2]

I agree with Jimro, I keep pressures low in my 7x57 mausers M93, & M95. They will certainly take any deer I will run across with a 130grn @ 2600 fps or 140grn @ 2500 fps. But I step it up with my M98's, 175grn@ 2700fps, 180grn@2600fps, & 200grn@2500fps. Those loads are plenty for Elk, Bear & hogs! I have yet to draw blood with any of those, but I'm hopeful for this year! I was just checking to see the advantage of the 8mm-06 vs my 8mm mauser's and where it stacks up against those magnums.

 

[Kachok]

Oh sure if I were shooting an old small ring Mauser I would be shooting mild loads and 2500 fps speeds for sure, which BTW is still plenty of power for deer hunting, but mine is a modern Tikka and it performs flawlessly with 140gr SSTs and a full charge of RL22, that makes the old Sweed shoot flatter, faster and further then a 165gr 308, and my 120gr Ballistic Tips over IMR 4350 mirror the trajectory of a 130gr 270 win with slightly better energy retention and less drift.

 

[kludge]

My "only one" big game rifle for CPX2 and CPX3 animals would be a .338-06. for those not needing dedicated varmint rifle, you can hunt everything in North America with three rifles: a .22LR, a .257 or 6.5mm, and a .338-06 without any magnum recoil.

Handloaded you can still get to the magic 2,000 fps and 2,000 fpe at 400 yards with a 225gr bullet.

No magnum needed, and exceeds most hunters abilities to shoot. No it's not a .338 Win Mag. And it doesn't kick like one either, yet it does everything that 90% of hunters need for 90% of animals and 90% of shots taken. Great sectional density, great high BC bullets, and enough energy and velocity on tap at long range.

The only reason to use a 8mm-06 instead of the .338-06 is if you are converting an 8mm Mauser. And when you can get a custom barrel from McGowen for less than three bills, there's really no reason at all to consider the 8mm-06, unless you already have the rifle and really want a DIY on the cheap.

 

[denton]

8mm-06 was a convenient post-war conversion that allowed the use of 30-06 brass, and just required chamber reaming.

I make my 8x57 brass out of 270 or 30-06. That's an even cheaper conversion.

At modern pressures in a 98 action, the 8x57 is a very capable cartridge.