I bought my second 91/30 last week, and I'm haviing a problem. When I chamber a round, turning the bolt the final turn is very hard. I disassembled the bolt completely and cleaned it, I cleaned the chamber and the bore, and the rifle looks great. Do I have a headspace problem, or is it an extractor problem? I don't know what to do. Thanks guys.
91/30 bolt issues
- Thread starter bgrav321
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I carry a 2X4 to the range for the very same reason. (just kidding) Yes, not the easiest bolt to close or open especially when it warms up after 4-5 shots.
What kind of ammo are you using? Some countries (notably Albania) had widely varying specs for cartridges and some rifles had problems closing on those.
jm
jm
Considering that this is common among Mosins, I wouldn't say it's a problem. I have an M91/30 that closes just fine but after firing, the bolt is VERY hard to turn up, and the cock-on-opening mechanism doesn't help.
I've read somewhere that hardened cosmoline in the barrel behind where the bolt lugs lock may be a cause of this.
I've read somewhere that hardened cosmoline in the barrel behind where the bolt lugs lock may be a cause of this.
General Geoff
Member
Usually it's an issue with cosmoline or carbon buildup in the chamber that causes a sticky bolt. It's just a fact of life with the Mosin.
Clark
Member
I like to weld a bolt handle extension at a low angle, so I can put a scope on the 91/30, M39, or M44.
look at the fired cases for signs of over pressure, sounds like as the 7.62x54 headspaces off the rim it should not be a problem, ya can try swapping bolt heads with your other rifle (this is how headspace is adjusted on the M/N) if it fixes the problem then check headspace on the other rifle if its good then your set since ya could have one thats a lil loose and one thats a lil tight..... swapping might make em both perfect
I recently had this problem on a Tikka 91/30. This is probably not the same sticky bolt syndrome some people have mentioned. Does your bolt close fine without a round in it?
Let's test to see if it's your extractor. Take the bolt out and slip an empty case under the extractor, seating it on the bolt face like you'd expect any round to fit when you close the bolt. Insert the bolt/cartridge combination back into the rifle to about mid-stroke, release the trigger so the rifle doesn't de-cock on closing, and close the bolt fully. Did it close easily? If so, you've located what's causing that difficult final turn. If it did not close easily, you may have a headspace issue, but I wouldn't figure on that unless you encounter the same difficulty with more than one type of ammo doing the described test.
There is another possibility: your rifle might be using a very tight-fitting bolt body. Does your rifle squeak when you close it? If so, you should add some grease to the receiver at the following areas:
Pay closest attention to the part on the left of the picture. Also note that I'm assuming you've got your bolt and bolt lugs properly lubed as well.
In the end, my Tikka 91/30 had trouble closing because of both things I described above. I replaced the bolt head and extractor, but the receiver the Finns chose for this rifle (a '39 Izhevsk) was machined very poorly, especially by that spot I marked with a yellow line on the left side.
An aside: sometimes the Finns do some really dumb things with these Mosins. The stripper clip guides were made so incorrectly on this receiver that an empty clip wouldn't even fit in the slot until I opened it up with the magic file--I can't imagine how it slipped through their QC. I've also had more frozen pins, mangled screw heads, and over-torqued fasteners on my late-war and post-war Finns than on all my other rifles combined. If they didn't shoot so ridiculously well...
Let's test to see if it's your extractor. Take the bolt out and slip an empty case under the extractor, seating it on the bolt face like you'd expect any round to fit when you close the bolt. Insert the bolt/cartridge combination back into the rifle to about mid-stroke, release the trigger so the rifle doesn't de-cock on closing, and close the bolt fully. Did it close easily? If so, you've located what's causing that difficult final turn. If it did not close easily, you may have a headspace issue, but I wouldn't figure on that unless you encounter the same difficulty with more than one type of ammo doing the described test.
There is another possibility: your rifle might be using a very tight-fitting bolt body. Does your rifle squeak when you close it? If so, you should add some grease to the receiver at the following areas:
Pay closest attention to the part on the left of the picture. Also note that I'm assuming you've got your bolt and bolt lugs properly lubed as well.
In the end, my Tikka 91/30 had trouble closing because of both things I described above. I replaced the bolt head and extractor, but the receiver the Finns chose for this rifle (a '39 Izhevsk) was machined very poorly, especially by that spot I marked with a yellow line on the left side.
An aside: sometimes the Finns do some really dumb things with these Mosins. The stripper clip guides were made so incorrectly on this receiver that an empty clip wouldn't even fit in the slot until I opened it up with the magic file--I can't imagine how it slipped through their QC. I've also had more frozen pins, mangled screw heads, and over-torqued fasteners on my late-war and post-war Finns than on all my other rifles combined. If they didn't shoot so ridiculously well...
It could be your extractor is too close to the bolt face, that often causes binding as the round is held crooked by the tension of the claw during the camming operation. Take a screwdriver under it and lever it out until the round will seat flat on the boltface.
I'm going to have to try that on my M44. It's not reall a sticky bolt problem, I can cycle five shots fine, but sometimes I do have to take the rifle off of my shoulder.
Thanks all for your help.
Danus Ex, The bolt is almost Mauser quality without a round in there. And it doesn't squeak ever. I lubed everthing, incl. inside of the bolt. I will try your extractor test tomorrow and get back to you.
Thanks again everyone!
I would try the switching bolt parts trick, but I sold my first one... good thought though, I'd be interested to see if it helps.
Danus Ex, The bolt is almost Mauser quality without a round in there. And it doesn't squeak ever. I lubed everthing, incl. inside of the bolt. I will try your extractor test tomorrow and get back to you.
Thanks again everyone!
I would try the switching bolt parts trick, but I sold my first one... good thought though, I'd be interested to see if it helps.
I cycled 35 or 40 rounds of Bulgarian brass case without a problem today.
Then I put a modern Russian lacquered, steel-cased round in there, and she stuck right up.
I'm a big fan of the "sticky bolt is casued by ammunition" theory.
Then I put a modern Russian lacquered, steel-cased round in there, and she stuck right up.
I'm a big fan of the "sticky bolt is casued by ammunition" theory.
Ok guys, I tried Danus Ex's extractor theory, and it is still hard to close, even with an empty case seated under the extractor. Now what? Does this mean it is headspace?
Dirty chamber first - proper lube second - new bolt body last. It could have been put together with a way out of spec bolt body when the Russians worked it over as they were just put into a big box upon disassembly in most cases. They are cheap as you can use the bolt head from yours. Be sure to check head space after change out.
The extractor *looks* a little closer to the firing pin annulus than is the one on my rifle, in which I have no issues closing the bolt.
I have one piece of advice for you. Before you start blaming parts, thoroughly clean and polish the chamber until it sparkles. The cheap plastic and/or lacquered cased ammo is bad for leaving deposits and gumming a chamber up, causing hard extraction.
Regards,
Dave
Once you've done the first item, then look to other items.
Regards,
Dave
Once you've done the first item, then look to other items.
Oil in the chamber!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On mine I had over oiled the bolt and magazine area as well as the chamber trying to get smooth operation. I couldn't understand why brass cycled easily, and Copper washed or lacquered steel case stuck like crazy until I stumbled onto this.
I had some Bore butter on my hands from shooting my black powder Remington. I picked up 5 rounds of copper washed ammo, and some of the NON petro oil from the Bore butter grease got on the cases. They cycled beautifully.
My guess is that on firing the hot gasses come slightly down the cases and fuze any petroleum based oil like a Crazy Glue drop. To test if this is your problem thoroughly wash out the chamber and dry it so no oil is present. Put a little olive oil on your hands prior to handling copper washed or lacquered ammo. Don't overdo this you just want the slightest of your normal body oils along with the olive oil to transfer onto the cases. This totally eliminated the sticky bolt on my M44 and 91/30.
KKKKFL
On mine I had over oiled the bolt and magazine area as well as the chamber trying to get smooth operation. I couldn't understand why brass cycled easily, and Copper washed or lacquered steel case stuck like crazy until I stumbled onto this.
I had some Bore butter on my hands from shooting my black powder Remington. I picked up 5 rounds of copper washed ammo, and some of the NON petro oil from the Bore butter grease got on the cases. They cycled beautifully.
My guess is that on firing the hot gasses come slightly down the cases and fuze any petroleum based oil like a Crazy Glue drop. To test if this is your problem thoroughly wash out the chamber and dry it so no oil is present. Put a little olive oil on your hands prior to handling copper washed or lacquered ammo. Don't overdo this you just want the slightest of your normal body oils along with the olive oil to transfer onto the cases. This totally eliminated the sticky bolt on my M44 and 91/30.
KKKKFL
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