9mm NATO

[Blkhrt13]

I understand that NATO is loaded hotter than regular preassure parabellum. What I can't seem to understand is when did NATO adopt this hotter version? I have a 92s that was made in the 70s. Is it plus p safe because it was made after 9mm NATO was adopted? I used to write the 9mm off while I carried a 38 special. Times sure change. I love my beretta I don't want to wear it out. Bonus cool points to anyone who can figure out when NATO adopted the 9mm and when it became a +p.

 

[jmr40]

9mm NATO is just standard pressure ammo in the rest of the world. Traditional USA loads have always been anemic while the rest of the world has always been shooting 9mm loads that was right on the heels of our 357 mag loads. That in large part explains why the round has only recently been widely accepted here while considered just fine everywhere else.

 

[Blkhrt13]

So the logic I was going with is that it was likely made for the 9mm NATO

 

[herrwalther]

9mm NATO is rated at 36,500 PSI. SAAMI puts 9mm standard pressure at 35,000. 9mm NATO barely qualifies as a +p round being just 1500 PSI over standard loadings and 2000 PSI below the +p pressure limit.

Fun fact: STANAG 4090 which established the 9mm NATO round as standard was ratified in 1962 with NATO qualification first happened in 1964.

 

[boom boom]

You will get a different poi as the nato round uses a 124 gr bullet versus the usual 115 gr 9mm load.

 

[BSA1]

"I love my beretta I don't want to wear it out."

Replace the recoil spring every 3,000 - 5,000 rounds and report back to us how well your gun is holding up after you shoot 50,000 rounds through it.

 

[Jim Watson]

Ernest Langdon campaigned a Beretta in IDPA for several seasons.
He replaced the recoil spring every 5000 rounds, all the other springs every 10,000, the locking block every 20,000.

The thing about 9mm NATO is that the pistol is a very minor military weapon, very few troops shoot them much.
The real use for 9mm ammo was for submachine guns which were a lot more common in the 1960s than they are now.

 

[JohnKSa]

9mm NATO barely qualifies as a +p round being just 1500 PSI over standard loadings and 2000 PSI below the +p pressure limit.

The SAAMI figures are maximums. Anything from 35,001PSI to 36,500PSI is +P since it is above the maximum limit for standard pressure 9mm but not over the maximum pressure for +P.

You will get a different poi as the nato round uses a 124 gr bullet versus the usual 115 gr 9mm load.

Probably not as much as you might expect as long as you're shooting it in a semi-auto. The movement of the barrel while the bullet is in the bore (prior to barrel unlocking) is primarily straight back. There is some muzzle lift due to the recoil spring coupling the barrel/slide to the frame but it's a very small amount. It's not until the barrel starts to unlock that you start to get significant muzzle lift. The result is that there's not the same amount of POI change due to different loadings in a semi-auto as you would expect to see in a revolver. There is an exception--guns that use a swinging barrel link will start to show barrel tilt almost as soon as the barrel starts moving. POI differences would likely be more noticeable in those than in guns where there's almost no barrel tilt for the first bit of slide/barrel travel.

 

[lysanderxiii]

9mm NATO is rated at 36,500 PSI. SAAMI puts 9mm standard pressure at 35,000. 9mm NATO barely qualifies as a +p round being just 1500 PSI over standard loadings and 2000 PSI below the +p pressure limit.

Fun fact: STANAG 4090 which established the 9mm NATO round as standard was ratified in 1962 with NATO qualification first happened in 1964.

NATO pressures for 9mm can be anywhere between 33,300 to 38,500 psi, according to STANAG 4090.
SAAMI pressures are 35,000 max average to 37,800 psi max probable.

NATO pressures are not that much hotter, certainly not in the P+ range.

STANAG 4090 was not ratified by NATO until Spain formally adopted the round in 1991.

Individual nation ratification dates:
Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Germany, Norway, Turkey, UK - 1962
Greece - 1963
France, Italy, Holland - 1964
Luxembourg - 1965
US - 1984
Spain - 1991
Portugal - 1994

You will get a different poi as the nato round uses a 124 gr bullet versus the usual 115 gr 9mm load.

STANAG 4090 allows 9mm bullet weights anywhere from 108 gr to 128 gr, with a required muzzle energy of 400 ft-lbs to 600 ft-lbs (fired from a 7.85 inch test barrel). That's anywhere from anemic to fairly warm when fired from the usual 4 to 5 in pistol barrel.

 

[Jim Watson]

(fired from a 7.85 inch test barrel).

Once upon a time, I read that the test gun was a Beretta Model 12 SMG. Which has the same 200mm barrel length as the PV rig. One reason the military ammo seems fast.

Going back to the trials of the early 1980s, the USAF had Hornady make a truncated cone bullet meant to improve the terminal ballistics as much as possible with a FMJ. Shades of George Luger and DWM. I gather this was OK in the Beretta 92 and other candidate pistols but not in the variety of pistols and SMGs in Common Europe who expected the USA to supply them in case of war. So it was back to the roundnose. I once saw a picture of a RNFP intermediate design but that didn't last long at all.

 

[herrwalther]

NATO pressures for 9mm can be anywhere between 33,300 to 38,500 psi, according to STANAG 4090.
SAAMI pressures are 35,000 max average to 37,800 psi max probable.

The Russians also experimented with an 80gr bullet at 41,000 PSI. Well outside the grain weight and pressure limits of STANAG 4090 and SAAMI. Although it is unlikely that Russia will ever be a member nation of NATO.

The 9mm NATO standard is a pipe dream. For the most part, the member countries supply their own munitions. The "standard" is not a standard at all. Different countries use different grain weights, pressures, brass, primers etc. I have done coalition marksmanship exercises with several NATO signed countries. Namely the UK, Canada, Germany, and Romania. US 9mm NATO ammo was never shared with the others and vice versa. The idea is that, in a pinch, a US soldier could use ammo from a Romanian soldier or from any other member country. Higher pressures will wear down a firearm faster, but that really isn't going to be a concern in warfare when your own supply lines may be compromised.

To the OP: US 9mm NATO ammo is not very hot compared to most +p or +p+ loadings. So I wouldn't really worry about wear.