A Little Help? High Standard Magazine

[berettaprofessor]

Just bought a 1937 Model B High Standard pistol in decent shape. Came with one magazine, however, I think it's been modified (laughing) since I've never seen a mag like this: look at the feed lips; cut and bent in, I think to hold the follower in when the mag is empty.

Somebody tell me so that I know for sure. It's not supposed to look this way, right? Has Bubba been here?

It's hard to load like this. Racking the slide feeds a round fine, but when the pistol fires, it ejects, the next round chambers but it won't fire...and racking again won't eject the round...remove round manually, rack and it will fire and eject again, leaving another round chambered. Ad infinitum.

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[rcmodel]

Looks right to me.
H-S mags are made like that.

http://www.ammoclip.com/h/high_standard_b,_hb,_gb.htm

If it feeds right, count your lucky stars and Do Not Mess with it!

The extraction issue has nothing to do with the magazine.

Clean the extractor & cut for it in the barrel face.

Check the chamber edge for a firing pin dent.

rc

 

[cuervo]

When you say it won't fire after a round is chambered, do you hear the hammer falling when you pull the trigger? If not, I would say the slide is not coming back enough to cock the hammer. When you cycle it manually, you are pulling the slide farther back than it is cycling on its own. Are you using standard velocity ammo or high velocity?

When you cycle the slide manually, do you feel any binding or rubbing against the magazine?

That magazine looks like it's been repaired, but if it is feeding rounds okay, I'd keep it. Since everyone needs more than one magazine, find another and see if you have the same problem with the new magazine. High Standard's name has been bought and the new company is making magazines that should fit your Model B.
http://shop.highstandard.com/magazine-model-bhbgb-round-22lr-p-1440.html

They're expensive, but they should work.

 

[Pete D.]

I do not know about magazines made in 1937.
The feed lips on that magazine do not resemble any HS mag that I have ever seen, be it mag for a slant grip or a military grip.
That mag has been cut. The two small "fingers" that seem to grasp that cartridge at the mouth of the case are not on any mag that I own or have seen. (And I have seen many )

 

[berettaprofessor]

Thanks RC. Will clean extractor and groove and try again. No dent in chamber. Firing pin seems to float. Protrudes backward under gravity. Should it?

 

[berettaprofessor]

Cuervo and Pete, have ordered new mag from Numrich already. Cuervo is right, the hammer doesn't fall after trigger is pulled on semi-auto fed rounds. I've fired both Rem subsonic and Wolf Match. Haven't tried high velocity and thought I wasn't supposed to in this old pistol.

 

[Bullseye57]

Your not the only one to have that style of HS magazine. That is a early version of the High Standard magazine. Early Ruger Mark I/Standard magazines had the same type of finger guide feature. Those fingers are there to force the rim upward to prevent the case rim from dipping back down into the magazine while feeding and causing a "bent nose" jam.

Your front fingers appear to be bent far too close together, which may be your issue with loading of that magazine. The points shouldn't be any closer together than the rear feedlip's opening. High Standards are famous for being magazine feed lip finicky, there's even a special adjustment tool specifically made just for keeping them in alignment.

R,
Bullseye

 

[rcmodel]

But, But, but?

He said the mag Feeds fine when he chambers a round.

And like I said, If a H-S mag does that, don't mess with it!

He also said the problem was not firing, and not ejecting.

And that has nothing to do with the mag that feeds right!

rc

 

[Monac]

I do not know about magazines made in 1937.
The feed lips on that magazine do not resemble any HS mag that I have ever seen, be it mag for a slant grip or a military grip.
That mag has been cut. The two small "fingers" that seem to grasp that cartridge at the mouth of the case are not on any mag that I own or have seen. (And I have seen many )

I know I'm new here, but I beg to differ. I have two early High Standards, a Model B and a Model C, and both magazines look like that, with the cut "fingers". That is a factory standard Model B magazine in berettaprofessor's photos.

 

[1SOW]

Sounds almost like there's not enough recoil to pull the case AND fully cock the hammer.
When you jack the slide manually fully it works.

Mine is the newer (1970's) Military type, but the recoil spring partially rides in a tunnel. Make sure everything in the action group that moves is clean and lightly oiled and check that the slide retracts and moves forward very freely.

 

[Pete D.]

Mags

Sorry to have been off base about those early magazines.
Learned something, I did.
Now I am wondering if that old gun will work with newer magazines..... without those "fingers".
Interestingly, Tom Dance makes no mention of this specific magazine type in his definitive "Collector's Guide to the Hamden and Hartford Target Pistols", though he does note that HS produced over a dozen magazine variations.
Pete

 

[Bullseye57]

My original posts did not address the failure-to-fire (ftf) issue, but instead addressed the OP's query about the style of HS magazine perhaps being modified vice factory original. Also, the OP commented on this particular HS magazine was hard to load, which is why I added the comments about the fingers being spaced too close together. The case rim is much wider than the cartridge body. As such, the fingers need to be positioned wider than the cartridge body, but narrower than the case rim to function properly and for ease of loading by the user. The fingers have a purpose, which is to force the case rim up underneath the extractor claw in time before the slide closes too far and causes a "bent nose" jam.

The failure-to-fire issue could be caused by several reasons. The first thing to do is establish that the barrel can accept the round fully, and seat against the breech face. This can be checked by "drop-checking" individual rounds into the barrel. If they seat fully into the chamber by nothing more than gravity, then the issue is likely caused by either the magazine or by the extractor claw. If the drop-checked rounds do not fully seat on their own, then the chamber may have some fouling issues causing the cases not to seat fully. A deep cleaning of the chamber with a bronze brush may be necessary to clear up any lead fouling.

R,
Bullseye

 

[berettaprofessor]

Well, I've got a new mag on the way, so I hope that helps. Also have to make sure that I've reassembled it right after cleaning.

Does anybody know about the floating firing pin? I think it's normal, but want to be sure there's not a broken spring or something.

 

[rcmodel]

There is no firing pin retractor spring shown in the parts list.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/HighStandard-33296/AutoPistols-36540/B-35002.htm

rc

 

[Big Shrek]

Mag is correct. I've got a "B" myself, 1939 date of birth.

Springs are usually worn out by this age, so getting new springs is usually called for.
The John Stimson website puts up a lot of great HS info.
Can't remember if the spring rates are on there somewhere or not...

Some "GUTS" pics would help, if we could see a few things inside,
a better diagnosis is possible...

Heck, sometimes its as simple as someone put the hammer in backwards...

 

[Jim K]

Maybe the reason that H-S magazine looks a bit odd is that it is a Colt Woodsman magazine, or was made from same.

Jim

 

[Monac]

Wow - I can't tell the difference between a short-grip Woodsman magazine and a High Standard Model B magazine without looking at the base plate. How did you tell? Different color bluing?

 

[berettaprofessor]

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner goes to....Bullseye57! I had ordered a new magazine and when it came in, I noted that the feed lip "cutouts" were much farther apart. The new magazine cycled and fired normally, and I bent out the lips on the older magazine and it now works as well!

Thanks Bullseye! For interested others who have the same issue, I attached a picture below, showing the "old" mag on the left (before bending), and new mag on the right. The feed lips on the new mag are almost even with the sides of the mag, instead of being bent decidedly inward.

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[Furncliff]

Tutorial on feed lip adjustment, for future use...
http://www.gun-tests.com/pdfs/1-3-20steps.pdf

and this...
http://home.roadrunner.com/~jbarta/hsclip.pdf

My HS pistols worked better after I changed recoil and firing pin springs. Weak springs can batter the frame, also don't use high velocity ammo in an older HS.. You will also find recoil spring packs that come in three different weights to fine tune your pistol for the ammo you are using....
http://www.gunsprings.com/index.cfm?page=items&cID=1&mID=28

 

[berettaprofessor]

Thanks Furncliff.

 

[saltydog452]

New home for this thread

Flagged and Bookmarked. This thread is now in a 'High Standard' folder.

A gent by the name of Barta wrote a bit on High Standard magazines. He also describes 'the High Standaerd magazine adjustment tool' that was mentioned above. I have one in my Gun Box.

Thanks all,

salty

 

[Jim K]

Hi, Monac,

I thought I posted this earlier, but I guess I didn't. Anyway, the Colt magazine has the dismount hole at the top, while the H-S has it at the bottom.

Jim