Ammo storage

[wgungho]

I'm not sure where to put this, so I'll try here.
As I understand it, small arms ammo, i.e., pistol and rifle, is not explosive when exposed to fire, although there is danger from rounds as they cook off. What type of storage locker is required to prevent injury (typically to firemen) in the event of a fire. I have a lot of ammo in a metal box with 1/8" steel construction. The box is well vented, and a fmj 9mm did not penetrate the box when fired from about 15 yards. The venting should prevent an explosive atmosphere from developing. Most of my rifle ammo is in this box. I also have several thousand rounds of pistol ammo that is stored in surplus ammo cans. Is this considered safe storage. I keep all ammo in my detached garage, but the garage is only 25 feet from my house. I don't intend to dig an underground bunker for storage, so what's a safe container for my garage?

Thanks
Tom

 

[Sulaco]

Uh, are you serious? Do you have any idea how much stuff you have in your house that's more dangerous than ammo? Just shove it in a box and forget about it.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

I think we all have been conditioned by Hollywood to believe ammunition exposed to a fire will instantly become high velocity projectiles, but stop and think a moment. What causes a bullet to accelerate to a high speed? It is the surrounding chamber and barrel, the brass walls of the cartridge are not strong enough to contain the burning powder and without containment smokeless powder just burns, it does not explode. I worried about this years ago until I thought about it.

 

[hogshead]

Your box should be fine. As mentioned ammo doesnt explode like on tv.Some rounds will become airborne like a sky rocket but dont think they would kill anyone.

 

[Telekinesis]

When rounds "cook off" outside of a gun barrel, it is the case that starts moving, not the bullet, and it doesn't have the ability to seriously injure someone unless we're talking about something in the class of a .338 Lapua or a .50 BMG round. Even in a fire, I highly doubt that if a round cooked off, it would send a casing fast enough to even make it through the jacket/pants that a firefighter would be wearing.

IIRC .30 cal and .50 cal military ammo boxes were designed to prevent cook offs from penetrating the box. If you're really concerned about it, find a few of those online or at gun shows and dump your ammo in there. You might want to put them into little zip lock bags with the ammo box label in there so you know exactly what you're shooting.

 

[Cosmoline]

There is one major danger with ammo in a fire--rounds left IN THE CHAMBER. Those will discharge if cooked off in a fire. I don't know how much velocity is lost due to the nature of the discharge, but it isn't enough to make them non-lethal. So if you are storing loaded firearms with one in the chamber for some reason, make sure the weapons are pointed at a good backstop.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Um buddy
the stuff UNDER YOUR SINK is more deadly than your ammo
esp. when it starts burning, hell laundry detergent ain't exactly friendly to breath when your burn it, and it burns pretty well too.

Ammo poses a danger in 2, I REPEAT TWO ways when burned

the brass CASE will fly when it's cooked off, Newton's laws and all that, bullet is MUCH heavier, and the powder is uncontained, if the bullet stays with the brass and the case wall is breached, there's almost no danger as it won't go anywhere.

Secondly, ammo that is contained (say in the chamber of a gun) can ignite and fire the bullet at lethal velocity, this is actually what the fire fighters dread, an ammo cache will keep them out of that part of the house, cause the brass and all, but mostly because of the danger of the same person keeping a LOADED firearm

Powders etc. are flammable, they can burn, they are pretty much a solid form of gas, and thats it. (interesting history fact, a number of early inventors attempted for make a gunpowder internal combustion engine, but getting black powder to feed consistently proved unworkable)

In the end, if you are that paranoid, buy russian surplus, 6 mil plastic and a bunch of rubbermaid totes the next time they are on sale and go dig a hole in your back yard.

 

[STL73]

I live in the deep South and last summer was the worst summer I've seen since I lived here. I have roughly 5-6k rounds of assorted ammo in plastic Cabelas boxes that were in my garage, that I closed all the time. I didn't check temp but I know it was wicked hot in there. No trouble whatsoever from the ammo.

 

[medalguy]

According to SAAMI information:

Insofar as the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’
Institute has been able to determine, there have been no substantiated
reports of serious or fatal injuries caused by the discharge
of packaged or loose ammunition in handling or in
fires, regardless of the quantity or type of cartridges or shotshells
involved. SAAMI has no verified report of any fire fighter
hurt by flying bullets or shot pellets in fires involving a sportsman’s
in-the-home personal supply of ammunition, a retail
sporting goods store’s stock, wholesaler’s or distributor’s sizable
inventory, or an in-transit cargo of this product.

Although much has been written and rumored about the 4th of
July characteristics and so-called havoc of ammunition in
fires, it just isn’t so.

Several members of the Sporting Arms and Ammunition
Manufacturers’ Institute have undertaken extensive experiments
to show what can be expected when ammunition is involved
in a fire. These companies have also made careful investigations
after such fires, which show that the missiles do not have
sufficient energy to penetrate the garments and protective gear
worn by fire fighters.

That about covers the subject for me.

 

[wgungho]

I appreciate the replies, but, to be honest, I was looking for a little tech on the subject. I'm storing 15k+ rounds of rifle, 1200+ shotgun, and probably 5k+ of pistol. I realize some of you guys have actual ammo dumps compared to me, but mine totals more than a handful. Most of the rifle stuff is the really good 7.62x51 NATO stuff (German, Aussie, Brit, etc.), and name brand .308 match, all bought a bargain prices. I think of it as my retirement fund! None of my firearms have chambered rounds, excpet for my concealed carry weapon, although I have numerous loaded mags.

Will air-tight military ammo cans contain 500 rounds of pistol ammo as it cooks off? Would a fireman need special protection when dealing with the fire? Things like that. I should have been more specific when asking the question.

Medalguy-Thanks, just what I was looking for. Your post arrived as I was writing this!

 

[Shadow 7D]

Yes, military cans will contain the brass or slow it down significantly if some hits the same part repeatedly, and just space, unless you are in the fire too, you should be fine. The militarys of the world store hundreds of millions of rounds that way and seems to work fine for them.

Actually, if it's not an attached structure, and nobody is inside, the firemen WILL NOT ENTER, esp. if they know there is ammo, it's a safety thing, there isn't that much more they can do from inside that putting water on the outside won't do. AND it's just not worth the extra risk to them, after all, they OFTEN won't enter a detached building anyways, their point is to protect your neighbors and keep the fire from spreading.

 

[GCMkc]

.50 cal ammo can, $10 at your local gun show. That's how I store mine.

 

[ball3006]

Just don't burn your house down, and you will be fine. I just tell the wife to go two blocks down the street if the house catches on fire................chris3

 

[leadchucker]

Another vote here for good old USGI ammo cans.

 

[newbuckeye]

So is it ok to store powder and primers in the same container as loaded ammo?

 

[natman]

So is it ok to store powder and primers in the same container as loaded ammo?

Depends on the container. Powder and primers shouldn't be stored in anything that's not vented. Do not put your primers in a GI ammo can!. If they should go off you want the flash to dissipate, not build up until it explodes.

 

[CooterShooter]

Another vote here for good old USGI ammo cans.

USGI ammo cans FTW. Come to think of it I've got so many .50 cal ammo cans stacked in the garage I've started using them to store tools in. I'd sell them except that I'd have to find a new place to keep all the orphan wrenches from the Christmas toolsets of yesteryear...

I've been buying them for $5 and $10 there for so long at gun shows, who knew you could get so much on ebay? http://tinyurl.com/USGI-50cal-Ammo-Can-Ebay

 

[Hocka Louis]

If ammo had to be packed in anything other than cardboard, wood, and the occassional steel can than it always would be. And they'd be selling us more stuff. But it isn't. And they aren't. What does Wal-Mart do? They have shelves and cabinets and pallets full of the stuff.

As for your quantity, it is certainly more than average and more than an arsenal (as defined by Chuck Schumer who wanted tracking and taxing of 200 or more PRIMERS). But I think you'll be OK with NO special accomodations.

 

[medalguy]

Powder and primers should NEVER be stored together. Again from the SSAMI literature:

Store in a cool, dry place. Be sure the storage area selected is free from any possible sources of excess heat and is isolated from open flame, furnaces, hot water heaters, etc. Do not store smokeless powder where it will be exposed to the sun’s rays. Avoid storage in areas where mechanical or electrical equipment is inperation. Restrict from the storage areas heat or sparks which may result from improper, defective or overloaded electrical circuits.

Do not store smokeless powder in the same area with solvents, flammable gasses or highly combustible materials. Store only in Department of Transportation approved containers.

Do not transfer the smokeless powder from an approved container into one which is not approved.

Do not smoke in areas where smokeless powder is stored or used. Place appropriate “no smoking” signs in these areas.

Do not subject the storage cabinets to close confinement.

Storage cabinets should be constructed of insulating materials and
with a weak wall, seams or joints to provide an easy means of selfventing.

And no, powder and primers should always be stored in separate containers that will NOT contain pressure in the event of a fire. The original containers are recommended, but you can place those in plastic containers to keep moisture and dirt away from the contents. They should never be placed in metal containers which cannot vent in the event of a fire. You will have created a bomb in this case. Always err on the side of safety.