Aren't (most of) you glad to live in the US??
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Oleg Volk
Moderator Emeritus
That was Russian for "Show documents, growl!"
JPM70535
Member
Yes, I am glad every day of my life that I live in the U.S.A. In spite of all its faults and the constant erosion of the freedoms we once enjoyed, it is head and shoulders above any other I can think of. No court decision can ever negate the fundamental rights enumerated by the founding fathers in the Bill of Rights, so long as we the people stand ready to die to preserve those rights
igor
Member
This is your resident Finn speaking.
This is the kind of stuff that we won't tolerate, ever. No matter how much EU sneaks in. We won't be banning books or insignia either.
Trooper, aren't you a Polizist yourself IIRC? Could you be raiding your fellow Schützenvereinsmitglieder next?
This is the kind of stuff that we won't tolerate, ever. No matter how much EU sneaks in. We won't be banning books or insignia either.
Trooper, aren't you a Polizist yourself IIRC? Could you be raiding your fellow Schützenvereinsmitglieder next?
MicroBalrog
member
fiVe
Member
So glad and VERY thankful to have been born in and to live in the USA.
trooper
Member
Hops,
I suppose it is true that the whole operation stemmed from bureaucratic ambitions on Herr Templer's (the responsible bureaucrat) side.
I know a lot of police officers who are avid shooters and great sportsmen themselves.
Igor,
you're almost right: I was in federal law enforcement (Border Police) but I quit this November to get into state police service. Unfortunately I have to complete a compulsory one-year waiting period before I can reapply for police service anywhere (fed gov doesn't like its people quitting...)
So right now I work as a plain-cloth security officer for a big shopping center (yup, I'm a proud mall ninja, and undercover, too
and am anxiously looking forward to next autumn when I can join the force again...
I don't think I will ever have to raid my buddies' shooting club as I fully expect this action to be declared unlawful in court. If it turns out the other way I'll go to the American embassy in Berlin and apply for political asylum because I'm a member of a persecuted minority
Regards,
Trooper
I suppose it is true that the whole operation stemmed from bureaucratic ambitions on Herr Templer's (the responsible bureaucrat) side.
I know a lot of police officers who are avid shooters and great sportsmen themselves.
Igor,
you're almost right: I was in federal law enforcement (Border Police) but I quit this November to get into state police service. Unfortunately I have to complete a compulsory one-year waiting period before I can reapply for police service anywhere (fed gov doesn't like its people quitting...)
So right now I work as a plain-cloth security officer for a big shopping center (yup, I'm a proud mall ninja, and undercover, too
and am anxiously looking forward to next autumn when I can join the force again...I don't think I will ever have to raid my buddies' shooting club as I fully expect this action to be declared unlawful in court. If it turns out the other way I'll go to the American embassy in Berlin and apply for political asylum because I'm a member of a persecuted minority
Regards,
Trooper
Chipperman
Member
"Achtung, peasant! Sounds like some parts of the U.S. Can't shoot at humanoid target in Massachusetts either."
That is Not True! The law states that Clubs which have their own FFL cannot allow shooting at targets "that resemble a human figure". This law applies to very few Clubs in MA. If the Club does not have its own FFL, you can shoot at any target you want.
Unfortunately, a lot of the MA Gun laws are misunderstood and Myths get perpetuated on the Web.
Another popular Myth is that Hi-Caps are not allowed in MA. That is also untrue. If you have a Class A license, you can buy all the Hi-Caps you want.
That is Not True! The law states that Clubs which have their own FFL cannot allow shooting at targets "that resemble a human figure". This law applies to very few Clubs in MA. If the Club does not have its own FFL, you can shoot at any target you want.
Unfortunately, a lot of the MA Gun laws are misunderstood and Myths get perpetuated on the Web.
Another popular Myth is that Hi-Caps are not allowed in MA. That is also untrue. If you have a Class A license, you can buy all the Hi-Caps you want.
T.Stahl
Member
Well, Trooper, you surely know about Waco and Ruby Ridge. Overreaction by authorities can happen in the US as well.
But isn't the nice thing about a German shooting club that there's a fair chance that there are police officers, attorneys, public prosecutors or judges among its members? I hope so in this case.
But isn't the nice thing about a German shooting club that there's a fair chance that there are police officers, attorneys, public prosecutors or judges among its members? I hope so in this case.
Ryder
Member
Wow, learn something new every day!
Tommorrow I would like to learn why it is prohibited to shoot at a picture because of where it's done.
trooper
Member
Well... um, you know, it's kinda hard to explain because this particular law was written by some socialist green leftist commie legislators
But I'll give it a try. Unfortunately over here it is common opinion among ALL political parties, courts of law, politicians, lawyers, legal scholars (see where it's coming from?) that it is the primary function of a firearm to be used by the state to enforce the order of the law.
Besides this, guns may be used for hunting and sporting purposes. They concede that one may acquire and carry a firearm for self-defense if one can prove to be substantially more threatened by a violent attack than the average person.
Germany's firearms law is therefore based on the concept of "need". You may only get yourself a gun if you can present one of the above mentioned reasons why you need it. What you can do with your gun (once you bought it and took it home) also depends on what kind of "need" you presented to get your permit.
If you bought a gun for sporting purposes you have no "need" for self-defense-related firearms training. The reason is that they fear criminals getting advanced training and pose a greater threat to law enforcement agencies. And shooting at human pictures is considered combat training by the authorities.
Yes, it's that simple and that bad.
!! I'D LIKE TO STATE THAT I DO NOT AGREE WITH ANY OF THE ABOVE LEGAL POLICIES!! Just in case somebody misunderstood me
Regards,
Trooper
But I'll give it a try. Unfortunately over here it is common opinion among ALL political parties, courts of law, politicians, lawyers, legal scholars (see where it's coming from?) that it is the primary function of a firearm to be used by the state to enforce the order of the law.
Besides this, guns may be used for hunting and sporting purposes. They concede that one may acquire and carry a firearm for self-defense if one can prove to be substantially more threatened by a violent attack than the average person.
Germany's firearms law is therefore based on the concept of "need". You may only get yourself a gun if you can present one of the above mentioned reasons why you need it. What you can do with your gun (once you bought it and took it home) also depends on what kind of "need" you presented to get your permit.
If you bought a gun for sporting purposes you have no "need" for self-defense-related firearms training. The reason is that they fear criminals getting advanced training and pose a greater threat to law enforcement agencies. And shooting at human pictures is considered combat training by the authorities.
Yes, it's that simple and that bad.
!! I'D LIKE TO STATE THAT I DO NOT AGREE WITH ANY OF THE ABOVE LEGAL POLICIES!! Just in case somebody misunderstood me
Regards,
Trooper
stevelyn
Member
Yes I'm thankful to live in the U.S and even more thankful that I made the choice to live in the Free Republic of Alaska.
igor
Member
trooper, more power to you. Illegitimi non carborundum.
Your description of the German way of seeing the "need" thing got me thinking. We have that too, but this principal of arms being the state's power monopoly enforcement tools that you spell out so clearly, that is not (at least explicitly) a theme in the Finnish discussion. I'll have to dig in to the history of the matter here... if I find that thinking implicit, I'll have to think through a lot of things again.
The defense training thing you got is truly a remarkable brain fart. Our acceptable "needs" list entails military reserve training so that's a non-issue... but only in practice. I wonder how our situation would be if the last war had ended differently.
Your description of the German way of seeing the "need" thing got me thinking. We have that too, but this principal of arms being the state's power monopoly enforcement tools that you spell out so clearly, that is not (at least explicitly) a theme in the Finnish discussion. I'll have to dig in to the history of the matter here... if I find that thinking implicit, I'll have to think through a lot of things again.
The defense training thing you got is truly a remarkable brain fart. Our acceptable "needs" list entails military reserve training so that's a non-issue... but only in practice. I wonder how our situation would be if the last war had ended differently.
trooper
Member
BTW here are some other things that certain bureaucrats in the Ministry of the Interior wanted to outlaw but weren't successful:
point-shooting, all IPSC-related stuff, all disciplines that involve moving along a course (they stopped when they realized they were just about to kill biathlon, all weapons that are or were duty weapons...
Those efforts were stopped because a number of people from all major shooting associations (for whom I have a LOT of respect) put up resistance and made a lot of noise about it.
I value this resistance all the more because after the school shooting in Erfurt a lot of people in the German shooting community said, "Oh my god, we need to sacrifice some stuff so that we might not lose all of our rights."
Nutjobs.
Regards,
Trooper
point-shooting, all IPSC-related stuff, all disciplines that involve moving along a course (they stopped when they realized they were just about to kill biathlon
, all weapons that are or were duty weapons...Those efforts were stopped because a number of people from all major shooting associations (for whom I have a LOT of respect) put up resistance and made a lot of noise about it.
I value this resistance all the more because after the school shooting in Erfurt a lot of people in the German shooting community said, "Oh my god, we need to sacrifice some stuff so that we might not lose all of our rights."
Nutjobs.
Regards,
Trooper
Balog
Member
So, do they require you to wear little gun-shaped patches yet?
trooper
Member
Yeah, that one has been mentioned by some of our guys.
There's a small, but committed group of people who feel that they want to do something about the current situation, a large majority who basically think, "Well, I already have all the guns I want, and they can't legally take them from me, besides this they won't dare to really piss us off," and a minority of traditional shooters who have nothing but disdain for everybody who does something different than "pure olympic-style shooting sports". The latter group is quite a problem because they have an influencial position in the largest German shooting association and would gladly sacrifice us all on the altar of political correctness.
Not yet, but if you're a registered firearms owner they may search your house without a search warrant if they have probable cause. It's all in the new firearms act.
Principiis obsta...
Regards,
Trooper
artherd
member
"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There will be a rifle behind every blade of grass." - japanese admiral Yamamoto
Hell yes I'm glad to live here. (and personally account for some of those rifles
SWAT hitting a shooting range, were they TRYING to start a shootout? (maybe they were...)
I'm still glad to be able to tell a cop who 'asks' to search my car to "go get a warrant, I'll see you later."
Some in this country have even equated "License and registration please" to "Papers, now!" Of course you must still maintain both to legally drive, but you do NOT have to carry them on your person as per the constitution. (and despite popular belief.)
You can come and go in this country as you damn well please.
Hell yes I'm glad to live here. (and personally account for some of those rifles
SWAT hitting a shooting range, were they TRYING to start a shootout? (maybe they were...)
I'm still glad to be able to tell a cop who 'asks' to search my car to "go get a warrant, I'll see you later."
Some in this country have even equated "License and registration please" to "Papers, now!" Of course you must still maintain both to legally drive, but you do NOT have to carry them on your person as per the constitution. (and despite popular belief.)
You can come and go in this country as you damn well please.
Balog
Member
artherd: Uhhh, driving on a public road while not carrying your license to do so IS a crime IIRC. I suppose it might vary with location tho.
Moparmike
Member
In AR, IIRC, the police can run your DL# or SSN to verify a valid current DL. It would be a good idea to have some sort of cooberating (SP?) evidence to aid you as well, like a vehicle registration or something.
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