Arisaka - what to look out for?

[BushMaster-15]

A lot will depend on condition and another thing that effects value is if it has the Chrysanthemum still stamped into the barrel or not. My memory is shot and I can't remember if it was the Japanese govt or the US Army that ordered the Chrysanthemum to be ground off each rifle when turned in. Some GI's managed to bring back rifles with the Chrysanthemum still on the rifles.

Japanese Gov. as the Chrysanthemum is the imperial seal ,a sign of nobility as it's the flower of the emperor's .

IF the Bore isn't Do Doo and the Mum is there and nobody has hacked it ; It has significant Military collector value .

I quick copied this from Wiki but I use it a couple of times a year to defend the homestead from UNWELCOME BUGS . Wasp spiders box elder and such . One must be careful with it and pay attention to the time of year while applying it . Don't want to kill Bees or ladybugs and such ,so specific targets and times .

Also : The pyrethrins are a class of organic compounds normally derived from Chrysanthemum cinerariifolium that have potent insecticidal activity by targeting the nervous systems of insects.

 

[RA40]

Took down the Type I Carcano to inspect for rust under the stock and guard, run a patch through the bore along with some much needed lubrication. Rust was tame-mild so most cleaned up with some oil and the brass brush. A few areas with deeper penetration though overall not as bad as it could have been. Bore looks really good and the wear on the bolt is light. I don't think this rifle saw many rounds through it as the receiver and bolt lugs don't show much wear.

Not as nicely finished as expected. Some snaps:

 

[Remington1911]

Japanese Gov. as the Chrysanthemum is the imperial seal ,a sign of nobility as it's the flower of the emperor's .

IF the Bore isn't Do Doo and the Mum is there and nobody has hacked it ; It has significant Military collector value .

I quick copied this from Wiki but I use it a couple of times a year to defend the homestead from UNWELCOME BUGS . Wasp spiders box elder and such . One must be careful with it and pay attention to the time of year while applying it . Don't want to kill Bees or ladybugs and such ,so specific targets and times .

Also : The pyrethrins are a class of organic compounds normally derived from Chrysanthemum cinerariifolium that have potent insecticidal activity by targeting the nervous systems of insects.

The mum was on basically everything, from rifle to battleship. It was seen as an extension of the emperor himself, loose it and you cut off the finger of the living god. Really in a nutshell that is what it is.

GENERALLY speaking the mum is not the end all and be all that so many casual people think that it is. It being "struck" is just the sign of a "bulk" surrender. The mum intact is (again GENERALLY) thought to be a battlefield pickup, but just as likely could come from a small stash of surrendered arms before the end of the war.

Again I suggest heading over to the rising sun section on gun boards, here you will learn the real in's and out's of this area of collecting this stuff. They have sub sections on just about everything military, as well as most "old" stuff.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Nice photos RA40! You're either using an actual camera or can do some real voodoo with a phone.

 

[RA40]

Nice photos RA40! You're either using an actual camera or can do some real voodoo with a phone.

Thanks, yes an actual camera, not phone. I haven't tried much with a phone.

 

[RA40]

Some pics of the Type 99:

 

[caribou]

Besides the mum and numbers being correct, the finish on the wood and the metal finish, collectors will look at the screws and see if they remained staked.
By each screw head you will see a divot punched into the screw and the associated metals to hold the screws in place.
im just throwing that out there, as its sorta unique to Japanese guns.

 

[tark]

collectors will look at the screws and see if they remained staked.

A very good point, caribou. This is what they look like.

 

[RA40]

Noticed the staked screws. They are staked though not firmly set on the Type I, they clicked out fairly easily and they clicked back in on reassembly. I was unable to remove the butt plate and didn't want to force or damage the screws so that was left as is.

The Type 99 has not been apart. It has that spanner type screw on the stock so until I have a proper means to turn it, I'm not going to risk damage.

 

[Archie]

Hello,
I have been offered an Arisaka from an estate sale. The only thing the seller knows about it is that is is a 6.5. I know nothing of the rifle, or its condition. The seller is open to offers.
What are the key things I should be looking for with this rifle when I view it? The rifle is at an estate sale so I will not get chance to go, go away and research and then make a decision.
What is a rough top end figure for this? I understand this is a difficult question as much is on the condition but lets assume it is an average rifle, nothing special but not a wreck either.
Assuming it is a straight rifle and I buy it I would like to shoot it. I can see form a quick google that ammo is very difficult to come by, but I could reload it. Would normal 6.5mm projectiles be OK to load in this? Finding the brass would be a different matter all together.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.

The 6.5x50mm Arisaka is essentially the 6.5x52mm Carcano (Japan bought some Carcanos in the beginning of the 20th Century). The only difference is the Carcano bullet is .268 and the Japanese used .264 (as does most of the world). Oddly enough, the Carcano round and the Japanese round are dimensionally the same - within machining tolerances - as the 6.5x54mm Mannlicher-Shoenauer round, except they all have different rim styles. All that to say this, it's a pretty decent round for most Continental U.S. game (excluding possibly some larger bears.)
Condition is iffy. Many show signs of have been stored improperly. Rust and eroded stocks. Rotten bores. Look well. The later rifles were made hastily. The engineering and workmanship on the internals were good, but finish was rather crude. And the later sights were fixed and simple.
Top end varies. Condition means a lot, but how much you want it and how much "he" wants to sell it probably matter more. At an auction, some folks just go crazy.
If is it a nice condition rifle, it will probably be worth more as a collector piece than any sort of shooter. If it's in real bad shape, you might have a lot to fix.
To my knowledge, the Imperial Chrysanthemum ("Mum" for short) was 'removed' by Japanese order to keep from giving away the Emperor's property to foreigners. An intact mum usually (not always and it's hard to pin down) a captured rifle rather than a surrendered rifle. They usually command higher prices. Again, 'higher' is a relative term and subject to haggling.
Shooting it (as is) will not be a big problem, other than finding the ammunition. A number of companies do make it (or claim to make it) but everything is more scarce these days. However, by U. S. standards, the triggers are not all that great.
If you sporterize it, you would likely be better off financially to just buy a modern rifle and call it good.

You are welcome to whatever help I provide.

 

[BushMaster-15]

The mum was on basically everything, from rifle to battleship. It was seen as an extension of the emperor himself, loose it and you cut off the finger of the living god. Really in a nutshell that is what it is.

GENERALLY speaking the mum is not the end all and be all that so many casual people think that it is. It being "struck" is just the sign of a "bulk" surrender. The mum intact is (again GENERALLY) thought to be a battlefield pickup, but just as likely could come from a small stash of surrendered arms before the end of the war.

Again I suggest heading over to the rising sun section on gun boards, here you will learn the real in's and out's of this area of collecting this stuff. They have sub sections on just about everything military, as well as most "old" stuff.

Yes it's Emperor's flower and seal of the Japanese Gov. . You are correct about battle field pickups and such .
I've a very close Friend who has no less than 60+ Arisaka's and perhaps 250+ Mauser K98's and other flavors .

Know it took #5 ,24 ft. enclosed trailers ,with custom built shelves racks down each side and they're
fronts ,including the #3 aisles full length down the centers of those trailers , so as to Move his Military collection !. Flags helmets bayonets ammo uniforms and of course Weapons . I shutter to even venture a guess as to the shear #'s he has . He began in earnest around 1959 collecting ALL manner of Military collectibles WWl and WWl . He's 10 years MY senior and his folks fled Germany in 1938 . A self taught gunsmith ,being an ACE mechanic he was ALWAYS very adept at MAKING whatever was necessary .

I myself have Samurai Katana blades as well as Officers sword but MY most prized possession besides a infamous Drilling in unusual caliber is
daishō aka A pair of genuine 15-16 Th. century Samurai swords . The Lady I got My .222 Remington 722 from ,was a Estate and Yard sale scrounger of sorts . Anyway She came across a Lady who's husband long deceased was on Iwo Jima and had # 4 Swords in her closet .
She knew Nothing about them nor did the other Lady ,so I offered to research them for her . I speak a little Japanese and can also depict a few words from using hiragana, katakana and kanji . I also have Friends who are Japanese ,so what I didn't know they did .
One sword was extremely old and very valuable , a famous fellow in Los Angeles made an offer for the Swords . I informed the Lady of his offer and also gave her as much info as possible so she wouldn't get ripped off by some con artist . She asked why I had told her of their value ,when I could have bought them for Peanuts . I explained I wasn't a thief and BAD things happen to people who deceive others for their personal gain .

Well she contacted the fellow in Los Angeles ,they talked . She hung up and handed Me the Pair of short and long swords ,smiling from ear to ear . I offered to pay what I figured they were worth . SHE refused MY offer and said their MY GIFT TOO YOU . So I've treated them as such since acquiring them .

The Lady didn't know anything about how her husband got them ,only he did send them to her while still in combat with instructions where to put them . She also had a K98 which I did Buy from her in the same closet . According to My friend who is the scrounger ,she and her daughter went on a very nice cruise shortly after the sale of that one sword .

All I can tell you is the blade was signed superb folding of the Damascus steel and the handle was Mother of Pearl inlaid with a unique tsuba .
Some 20 years later I actually went on a hunting trip Bird shooting in Argentina ,with a group of guys and he was one of them who was invited by a friend of My friend . He explained that sword was one in perhaps of 10K swords ,from a famous Master blade maker in one of the bloodiest provinces in Feudal Japan from 14-15 century . He turned it over to a Japanese Museum . That blade was just shy of 31" overall .

Mine are around 25" and 35" and the officers sword is longer 39+" with appropriate Rank and sash adornment a WWll issued Kia Gunto with Colonel ranking . I bought that one elsewhere .

 

[Remington1911]

Yes it's Emperor's flower and seal of the Japanese Gov. . You are correct about battle field pickups and such .
I've a very close Friend who has no less than 60+ Arisaka's and perhaps 250+ Mauser K98's and other flavors .

Know it took #5 ,24 ft. enclosed trailers ,with custom built shelves racks down each side and they're
fronts ,including the #3 aisles full length down the centers of those trailers , so as to Move his Military collection !. Flags helmets bayonets ammo uniforms and of course Weapons . I shutter to even venture a guess as to the shear #'s he has . He began in earnest around 1959 collecting ALL manner of Military collectibles WWl and WWl . He's 10 years MY senior and his folks fled Germany in 1938 . A self taught gunsmith ,being an ACE mechanic he was ALWAYS very adept at MAKING whatever was necessary .

I myself have Samurai Katana blades as well as Officers sword but MY most prized possession besides a infamous Drilling in unusual caliber is
daishō aka A pair of genuine 15-16 Th. century Samurai swords . The Lady I got My .222 Remington 722 from ,was a Estate and Yard sale scrounger of sorts . Anyway She came across a Lady who's husband long deceased was on Iwo Jima and had # 4 Swords in her closet .
She knew Nothing about them nor did the other Lady ,so I offered to research them for her . I speak a little Japanese and can also depict a few words from using hiragana, katakana and kanji . I also have Friends who are Japanese ,so what I didn't know they did .
One sword was extremely old and very valuable , a famous fellow in Los Angeles made an offer for the Swords . I informed the Lady of his offer and also gave her as much info as possible so she wouldn't get ripped off by some con artist . She asked why I had told her of their value ,when I could have bought them for Peanuts . I explained I wasn't a thief and BAD things happen to people who deceive others for their personal gain .

Well she contacted the fellow in Los Angeles ,they talked . She hung up and handed Me the Pair of short and long swords ,smiling from ear to ear . I offered to pay what I figured they were worth . SHE refused MY offer and said their MY GIFT TOO YOU . So I've treated them as such since acquiring them .

The Lady didn't know anything about how her husband got them ,only he did send them to her while still in combat with instructions where to put them . She also had a K98 which I did Buy from her in the same closet . According to My friend who is the scrounger ,she and her daughter went on a very nice cruise shortly after the sale of that one sword .

All I can tell you is the blade was signed superb folding of the Damascus steel and the handle was Mother of Pearl inlaid with a unique tsuba .
Some 20 years later I actually went on a hunting trip Bird shooting in Argentina ,with a group of guys and he was one of them who was invited by a friend of My friend . He explained that sword was one in perhaps of 10K swords ,from a famous Master blade maker in one of the bloodiest provinces in Feudal Japan from 14-15 century . He turned it over to a Japanese Museum . That blade was just shy of 31" overall .

Mine are around 25" and 35" and the officers sword is longer 39+" with appropriate Rank and sash adornment a WWll issued Kia Gunto with Colonel ranking . I bought that one elsewhere .

In my life I have seen with my own two eyes a private collection like you talk about, The guy passed and his wife had just no clue, called the company I worked for and I worked my way onto the crew that went out for the initial inspection. I kid you not gun parts in kitchen cabinets. One of these days I will post up about it....it is straight out of a movie.

It was the gun version of this I kid you not.

https://www.buzznicked.com/ultimate-barn-find-classic-cars/

 

[RA40]

A few more pics while this one is here. I'd like to keep it but stuff happens so it has an unknown future with me:

 

[BushMaster-15]

In my life I have seen with my own two eyes a private collection like you talk about, The guy passed and his wife had just no clue, called the company I worked for and I worked my way onto the crew that went out for the initial inspection. I kid you not gun parts in kitchen cabinets. One of these days I will post up about it....it is straight out of a movie.

It was the gun version of this I kid you not.

https://www.buzznicked.com/ultimate-barn-find-classic-cars/

As I've known Bill since 1965 and have been so many places with him over the decades , it just NEVER occurred to ME to ask him if I could photo shoot his collection . Truth be told it was ALL we could do to get him moved , which took several of us Months ,it was complicated !.
I've shot a crap load of them over the years but No where near 1/10 would be MY best guess and probably less .

As he's getting up in years now I'm wondering WHAT he has planned for their future ?. I sincerely hope they go to a museum ,at least a large % of them . I'd like to buy back My old Artillery Luger and get My SS Death head's twin brother Might be a Good time to have a face to face ?.

 

[Remington1911]

As I've known Bill since 1965 and have been so many places with him over the decades , it just NEVER occurred to ME to ask him if I could photo shoot his collection . Truth be told it was ALL we could do to get him moved , which took several of us Months ,it was complicated !.
I've shot a crap load of them over the years but No where near 1/10 would be MY best guess and probably less .

As he's getting up in years now I'm wondering WHAT he has planned for their future ?. I sincerely hope they go to a museum ,at least a large % of them . I'd like to buy back My old Artillery Luger and get My SS Death head's twin brother Might be a Good time to have a face to face ?.

People can be real funny when it comes to the end of the road, they can see you as a vulture just sitting waiting to pick your bones dry, or as someone that is really trying to help. It really depends on the person and your relationship with the person.