Ban on imported Rus./ guns. How about Ukraine, Bel. etc?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
9,379
Location
The Mid-South.
Can't change typo. Did this ban originate in a manner which included any and all lands of the former USSR?
If not, either the Ukraine or Belarus, especially much smaller Lithuania, Latvia etc have very limited supplies of surplus bolt-action and semi-auto guns such as the SKS, or the bans are very broad and a Congress. majority has been against any exceptions. Most of their rifles could have been exported to other countries?

The Canadians recently imported large numbers of Russian SKS, and according to a Canuck, they can buy a really nice SKS very cheaply if they agree to buy a case of ammo.
 
The VAR treaty was made post-breakup of the USSR, and was only with Russia. Almost all of the Soviet weapons being imported here(mosins, etc) are coming from Ukraine, or other former satellite states. The only way for Russian arms to be imported into the US is for them to be in a non-banned country for a certain period of time (I believe 13 years), that is how we are seeing Chinese SKS's being imported again. They also have to meet the "sporting purposes" clause.
 
The good days of unissued Russian SKS s are over. I got a dated 1950 in 1995 for $130 plux tax out the door. I still have it with me and it hold s a special place in my heart as it s my first centerfire rifle. I killed my first hog with it , too.
 
"What ban?"
Bubba's masterwork back in '96 or so; the reason we have no new SVT40s, while Canada has them for like 300$, and why 7.62x25 surplus has dried up (Soviets made it prolifically, but that one caliber is specifically barred from import by mutual agreement)

The treaty lists twenty or so firearms that we allow to be imported; no others, no additions. The only non-milsurp-bolt-rifle entries still eligible in quantity are Saigas and VEPRs which are on the list (shotguns are exempted, of course :rolleyes:). Interestingly, any and all parts of barred weapons are also barred, which is why there are no SVT parts kits, even.

This is honestly something we need to push on hard if a decent man ever occupies the post of Chief Executive again, since it is entirely at his discretion that it is upheld, and is unassailable by other means (courts, congress, etc.)

TCB
 
Google has no description of the actual ban on certain Russian guns.
"TheFirearmsBolg.com" has a listed of countries which exported guns or parts kits to the US": "Gun Imports in 2010".

Is the larger problem for us coming from the anti-gunners, normally cool relations with both Russia and the Ukraine (?), or is it the US gun manufacturers?
Apparently the US gun industry seems to be partly on the side of the more rabid anti-Second Amendment crowd.

Looking forward to somebody's comments which indicate that my impressions about our industry are mistaken.
 
Last edited:
The gun manufacturers have a built in interest in keeping low priced firearms off the market whether it be surplus or new from Chins. They are almost as bad as the gun grabbers, willing to sell their soul to the devil for profits. I have not bought a new American made gun in over 30 years because of this. Think about it.
 
I don't think gun manufacturers have anything to do with whatever bans that are in place. If they need to manufacture a low production cost firearm that is profitable yet reliable, accurate, and budget oriented, I'm sure they can come up with creative ideas to do so.

Just look at the Ruger American, Savage Axis, Remington 770 just to name a few. I don't have first hand experience with those rifles but they are all economical and from what ive read and seen on YouTube they get the job done.
 
BSA1: This might put it into context.

Even though I'm 58, I hadn't even touched guns (my .22 rifle) from '85 until '07. No kidding at all.
Having never been around gun people (knowingly) or read in any detail about gun issues until age 52, it is pretty difficult trying to catch up after being totally ignorant about everything, other than viewing CNN's deceptive agenda in the 90s.
 
Last edited:
I don't think gun manufacturers have anything to do with whatever bans that are in place.

922r. Look it up, and tell me who's vested interests are protected by that abomination. That's all I have to say on that.

TCB
 
barnbwt: Superb.

When I first read about 922r, it was obvious before I even asked guys about it, that what can mostly be a criminal transgression
(in the eyes of the ATF) is only a commercial protection for US products.

Do certain US manufacturers who must have been behind 922r feel a bit guilty -by way of the net effect- being 'aligned' with many of the ideas of Senators Feinstein, Boxer, Schumer, Biden....?
If some US companies were Not behind it (922r), then why must an imported rifle have ten or eleven US-made parts?
 
Last edited:
Ignition Override,

Welcome and thank you for choosing to become in the fight to save our 2A rights.

The Internet is one good forum to become informed. Sadly there is far, far more misinformation than factual ones. Conspiracy posts, such as #11, that are not back by facts are common.

On the other hand true conspiracies such as the domestic spying programs by the NSA, IRS abuses to conservative and religious groups and the coordinated attacks and loss of 2A rights in States are very well documented.

Your challenge will to decide what to believe. This forum will help you in your quest.
 
It's not a conspiracy, it's an observation. Can US and un-barred foreign manufacturers sell semi-auto rifles for more here, without an extra glut of SKSs, AKs SVTs, etc. ? It's been proven time and again that tariffs and trade restrictions accomplish nothing but the transfer of money from consumers to domestic businesses and governments--one of the few places economists agree.

Much like the bills barring import of Saturday Night Specials (like the 380 Glock :rolleyes:, and Five-seveN sans magazine disconnect), 922r was passed to make it difficult for companies (that were not big domestic players like S&W, Colt, and SA, but more like Century) to import parts/parts kits and assemble "US Made" rifles not subject to import duties or previous arms trafficking agreements. These parts kits were far cheaper than newly made US components, and the rifles could be assembled and sold for a profit far below US made offerings. It was done under the banner of bringing guns under the same scrutiny as other products billed as "US Made," which usually require some percentage of domestic parts --which is also for the sole purpose of protecting domestic manufacturers at the expense of consumers.

922r was billed as a trade agreement, not a gun ban, and meant solely to increase the cost (and ostensibly the quality) of imported guns. Why would cheap guns be a problem for anyone but the Brady Bunch (who didn't exist and weren't involved in this?) Because cheap guns hurt US manufacturers. It is the height of naiveté to think big .mil contractors had nothing to do with its passage. The fact it is solely enforced against corporations and very rarely (if ever) against individuals proves it had nothing to do with product safety, but rather muscling out the competition.

Granted, I did find it very hard to find even cursory historical information on the law. Not even a Wikipedia entry for some reason :confused:. I have a feeling this was one of those backroom under the rug things no one thought much of at the time, but has had huge ramifications since then (like the direct election of Senators ;) ). There's a lot of myth and speculation, but that's not what I'm describing, rather the end result that makes it hard for cheaper imported arms to get here. In the case of the Russian agreement, it makes it impossible (protecting us almost entirely from the most prolific gun manufacturer on the planet, engaged in offloading heavily discounted merchandise; I'm sure US corporations had nothing to do with planting that idea :rolleyes: )

TCB
 
The gun manufacturers have a built in interest in keeping low priced firearms off the market whether it be surplus or new from Chins. They are almost as bad as the gun grabbers, willing to sell their soul to the devil for profits. I have not bought a new American made gun in over 30 years because of this. Think about it.
amen to that. thanks for saying it. it started when they banned norinco. US makers are not on nobodies side but to rip people. like paying 300 bucks for US made iron sites for an AR
 
It's not a conspiracy, it's an observation. Can US and un-barred foreign manufacturers sell semi-auto rifles for more here, without an extra glut of SKSs, AKs SVTs, etc. ? It's been proven time and again that tariffs and trade restrictions accomplish nothing but the transfer of money from consumers to domestic businesses and governments--one of the few places economists agree.

Much like the bills barring import of Saturday Night Specials (like the 380 Glock :rolleyes:, and Five-seveN sans magazine disconnect), 922r was passed to make it difficult for companies (that were not big domestic players like S&W, Colt, and SA, but more like Century) to import parts/parts kits and assemble "US Made" rifles not subject to import duties or previous arms trafficking agreements. These parts kits were far cheaper than newly made US components, and the rifles could be assembled and sold for a profit far below US made offerings. It was done under the banner of bringing guns under the same scrutiny as other products billed as "US Made," which usually require some percentage of domestic parts --which is also for the sole purpose of protecting domestic manufacturers at the expense of consumers.

922r was billed as a trade agreement, not a gun ban, and meant solely to increase the cost (and ostensibly the quality) of imported guns. Why would cheap guns be a problem for anyone but the Brady Bunch (who didn't exist and weren't involved in this?) Because cheap guns hurt US manufacturers. It is the height of naiveté to think big .mil contractors had nothing to do with its passage. The fact it is solely enforced against corporations and very rarely (if ever) against individuals proves it had nothing to do with product safety, but rather muscling out the competition.

Granted, I did find it very hard to find even cursory historical information on the law. Not even a Wikipedia entry for some reason :confused:. I have a feeling this was one of those backroom under the rug things no one thought much of at the time, but has had huge ramifications since then (like the direct election of Senators ;) ). There's a lot of myth and speculation, but that's not what I'm describing, rather the end result that makes it hard for cheaper imported arms to get here. In the case of the Russian agreement, it makes it impossible (protecting us almost entirely from the most prolific gun manufacturer on the planet, engaged in offloading heavily discounted merchandise; I'm sure US corporations had nothing to do with planting that idea :rolleyes: )

TCB
beautiful post. big companies have paid the govt off to destroy competition for 150 years anyone who cannot see that must open their eyes
 
Last edited:
I doubt any gun manufacturers actively worket to get those bans in place, but they certainly ain't in a hurry to get them repealed.

I don't think gun manufacturers have anything to do with whatever bans that are in place. If they need to manufacture a low production cost firearm that is profitable yet reliable, accurate, and budget oriented, I'm sure they can come up with creative ideas to do so.

Just look at the Ruger American, Savage Axis, Remington 770 just to name a few. I don't have first hand experience with those rifles but they are all economical and from what ive read and seen on YouTube they get the job done.

U.S. manufacturers would never be able to compete with cost and quality of milsurp Soviet guns. The Ruger American? A plastic stocked rifle with no sights for $400 is not competing with a milled steel and wood Mosin ready to got to war for $100.

U.S. manufacturers can't compete with that because they must still abide by the basic rules of capitalism. They have to make a profit so they can sell their guns for only so cheap before it's just not worth it.
The milsurps however have none of those issues. They aren't cheap because the Soviets came up with some magical method to make these kinds of guns for nothing. They're cheap because they were built by the millions in a factory that had no concept of going broke. They could sell these things for $10 if they wanted to and the government would still make sure the factory's bills were paid.

An SKS built today by an American manufacturer would certainly not cost $300 those are closer to $600 guns.
 
It bears repeating.....WHAT BAN???????

BSA1 I must of been asleep. What ban?
If you were asleep so is ATF and Customs............I've been transferring quite a few Saigas, Vepr's and Mosins the last year or so.
 
dead horse club is still looking for members.
 

Attachments

  • Picture 2938.jpg
    Picture 2938.jpg
    173 KB · Views: 14
Interestingly, I think this ban (and possibly the ban on Chinese goods) is an area that a future more favorable-to-firearms administration would be open to amending or even repealing this agreement what with the popularity of both global free trade and milsurp and .mil-style* weapons. Obviously our benevolent rulers would never eagerly open the floodgates, but packaging the repeal with a free trade agreement or whatever may be palatable. Also good odds that Russia will need to raise cash in the future if oil prices tank for some reason.

TCB

*in this case, the AK parts kits, SKSs, SVTs, PPS/Hs, and Tok ammo are all very much "military" or "military style" weapons ;) :D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top