Best Value Black Rifle?

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Bob01

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Hello All,

Somewhat in the market for a 'black rifle'...

- Looking for something affordable - Preferably under $400, maybe up to $500...
(I am in no rush to purchase, I can browse the used market until I find the right price)
- Folding stock or under 30" overall (bullpup?)
- All Synthetic stock, pistol grip
- Affordable Ammo (thinking 7.62x39 is ideal?)
- Decent Accuracy (yeah I know this one is subjective...)
- Will function without much tinkering
- Intended as "range toy"


Any suggestions?

-----------------

If you are bored.....

Me and the wife are fairly casual shooters (maybe 2x a month to the range). Initially she told me she had a dislike for 'rifles', so our gun purchases so far have just been pistols. However on our last range visit, she mentioned those 'short black guns look fun'. Talking it over with her, I come to find out it is long traditional rifles she dislikes, but she has come to find those 'tacti-cool' rifles interesting.

Thinking the ultimate (affordable) 'short black gun' would be a bullpup AK or a Bushmaster M17S...upon more reading, it seems the bullpup AK maybe more trouble than its worth and the M17S isn't all that affordable to feed (Nato Ammo)

Upon more reading, it looked like an SKS folder would fit the bill, but it seems there is high chance of getting one with issues, since most were not made to be on black synthetic pistol grips from the factory, and may have mismatched parts, crappy hi cap magazines, not fit right, etc...

Now I am reading more about the Saiga AKs, and they seem to be quite robust, and don't seem to have issues with aftermarket parts (ie tactical stocks, etc)...

Me and the wife are on the short side as far as height is concerned, so was thinking a shorter rifle with slightly more weight to the rear may be beneficial (ie bullpup)...also having a shorter rifle that would fit in a tennis racket bag would be ideal...our neighbors gossip alot....

SBRs would be neat, but don't think they would be in my price range with stamp n' all...

Anyway - any suggestions on what would fit the bill?
 
$400-$500 may not be a reasonable budget for a bullpup semi-auto center fire rifle. You could build a lightweight AR carbine with an adjustable stock for under $700 with parts from Palmetto State Armory

PS- No firearm is a toy, even if it's only going to be used for casual shooting
 
MistWolf: $400-$500 may not be a reasonable budget for a bullpup semi-auto center fire rifle.
Click to expand...

I would have a bullpup if i could find one that price. Not gonna happen.
 
I'd probably consider a folding AK in either 7.62x39 (underfolder or AK-100 sidefolder) or 5.45x39 (sidefolder). 7.62 will give you more power and recoil, but if the rifle is just for plinking, 5.45 is much cheaper.

Arsenals are great rifles, but are pushing between $700 and $800 or more depending on the model. I'm afraid that at your price range, you will be looking at Century AKs, and possibly used ones if you want to stay at the lower end of your budget. They are decent for just occasional plinking, but have issues that you should be aware of, mainly canted sight blocks, poor fit and finish, and pretty shoddy warranty practices. They are also not reliable enough to be a heavy use gun (should you want to take a carbine class or something).

I have heard that bulpup AKs aren't really that great. They're likely to have horrible trigger pulls too. Most that I've seen are built off of century guns, so you'll also have all of those issues to watch out for too. Other more "modern" bulpups are along the lines of high end ARs in regard to prices.

If you can take some time and look through the FS ads, you can probably find a decent deal. I got a Vector AK underfolder (probably about the same quality as Arsenal, or maybe a tad bit lower) for between $500 and $600. So if you're patient, you can find a decent deal.
 
Thank you all for your inputs!
5.45x39 looks like the way to go :)

I was planning at primarily looking at the used market....I saw an AK bullpup go for under 500 a few weeks ago on a local ad, then again J&G has a 5.45 and a 7.62 variants going for 520 and 500 respectively....however add in shipping, ffl transfer it'll be over what I would want to spend...its a Century...then again I think the majority if not all AK bullpups are by them?

$520 5.45 Bullpup AK

$500 7.62 Bullpup AK

I'll probably go the AK route... I'll keep an eye out for ones modified with synthetic stocks, etc. - Any recommendations on which brands or particular variants from countries (ie, China/Norinco, Bulgarian, Romanian, etc) would be the ideal ones to lookout for? Again, I'm in no particular rush to buy, so I am willing to wait till I see a gem...I just need to know what to look for :)
 
I would use the term "cheapest" when referring to anything from Century.

I would not use the term "best value."


In my opinion, the best value in a lower-end AR would be the S&W M&P-15 Sport. A better option would be to spend a few extra bucks and go with a Palmetto State Armory or Spike's Tactical.

In an AK, iI find it hard to argue with buying a brand new Russian Saiga for under $400 and converting it down the road.
 
Bob01 said:
I'll probably go the AK route... I'll keep an eye out for ones modified with synthetic stocks, etc. - Any recommendations on which brands or particular variants from countries (ie, China/Norinco, Bulgarian, Romanian, etc) would be the ideal ones to lookout for? Again, I'm in no particular rush to buy, so I am willing to wait till I see a gem...I just need to know what to look for :)
Click to expand...

Head over to http://classicarms.us/ and search their page for "saiga ak". You'll find it almost impossible to beat that price on a Russian Saiga, with a basic conversion (FCG moved to intended position and new stock / pistol grip added).

The Saigas are new builds, off the same assembly line as the current Russian production military rifles.
 
You might want to consider an AMD-65. They're compact, have a folding stock, 7.62x39, the TGI build has all synthetic furniture (the two pistol grips) and usually runs around $400, has a chrome lined barrel and they're a lot of fun to shoot.
 
I like Bushmaster's AR-15.
I have stripped it and cleaned it, and find it to be well-made.
 
you're not going to find an ar for under 400. or even under 500. They seem to start around 550 and quickly scoot up to 700. you might find a keltec su-16 or a used mini-14 for under 500. maybe even close to 400. maybe. the keltec guns fold in half. They would probably fit in a tennis racket bag.

Since you're looking for a range toy that is fun to shoot for both you and your wife, have you considered a 22 rifle? they come in some tacticool flavors these days. Some that look like ar15's, some that look like mp5 submachine guns and can take a 100 round drum magazine.

it's not a black rifle, but have you given any thought to a lever gun in a pistol caliber? They're a blast to shoot. rossi makes a stubby 357 (will also take 38's) that is very non-threatening if the neighbors see it, weighs very little, and is very short.
 
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Thank you all for your replies!

With all your inputs I am now looking at

Hungarian AMD-65
Hi-Point 995/995ts
Keltec Sub 2000

I know...the last 2 are pistol carbines, but for all practical purposes, the ranges in my area are 75 yards or less... The Keltec Sub 2000 I was eyeing for a long time, but not sure how that hinged design will hold up for long term use. I acknowledge, the Hi-Point 995 isn't the looker....but for $250 and its overall durable look, it seems like a winner...well except it's max capacity is 15rnds per mag and it's 31" overall....meaning it wont fit in a standard sized tennis racket bag....

The Hungarian AMD-65 looks like it might fit the bill - however is there an AK74 variant that would be equivalent? I clean my guns every time after the range, so the (much cheaper) surplus corrosive 5.45x39 ammo shouldn't be a problem.

I was thinking of getting a 22...like the 10/22 and maybe trying the muzzlite bullpup stock on it and or other tacticool stuff for it...but my other half feels shooting our buckmark while fun, feels that it is lacking....however if anyone feels like recommending a "tacticool" .22, chime in :)
 
RE: Hi-Point 995TS

I saw one for sale in the classifieds here... around $185, I think. But I don't know if it's still available.
 
Good luck finding one for that kind of money new, - it ain't happenin...!!!


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- Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
It seems to me you're making choices based on cosmetic appearances and certain prejudices. I would suggest that your wife and you ought to try out the traditional rifles more before deciding you must have something with a vertical pistol grip and an AR-type stock.

For the kind of money you're talking you can get an excellent CZ 452 .22 zapper, a solid used bolt action high powered rifle, or a nice SKS. I would suggest the CZ to start, as I suspect it will change certain views about long guns real quick.

You can get a bubbafied SKS that sorta kinda looks like an AR, but that rifle works better left as is and not turned into an AK let alone a faux AR with plastic furniture.
 
i would go look at del-ton.com and also century arms makes a bullpup or two. You can see them at jgsales.com another route would be to get a saiga "option" they are usually fairly accurate ak's
 
For a range toy, I was thinking a carbine in 9mm as well.....or a .22. If you don't need the horsepower, why pay for it? Remember, the gun purchase price is only half of it. There is the ammo too. If the range doesn't go beyond 100 yards, you don't need any more.

How about something like the Beretta Cx4 Storm?

If you are a pistol guy anyway, getting something with a 9mm probably duplicates an existing cartridge you buy(??).
 
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