Black Tip 7.62x39

[xx7grant7x]

Bought 100 rounds of the stuff at the gunshow (all the guy had) for $75, the box says made in russia and the head stamp says TCW 7.62x39, appears to be steel cased. I was curious if I

1. got a decent deal
and
2. if this stuff in corrosive or not
and
3. How common/uncommon it is to find said ammo as I haven't seen it before although I haven't really looked before

Thanks!

 

[HeavenlySword]

100 rounds of 7.62x39 for 75$?

75 cents a round?

You got gypped. Well, at a gun show, they tend to do that

 

[xx7grant7x]

well it isn't normal 7.62x39 it is actual black tip AP ammo (uuuuhhh I hope) I wouldn't have paid that for normal wolf, golden tiger etc. obviously, but this is something i can't really find online nor usually at gun-shows. as an update i did kind of get gypped on quantity, all five of the boxes have only 19 rounds each, (Should be 20 per box) and one box is copper washed case with head stamp 351 92 something different i assume. So I only actually got 76 rounds of TCW black tip ammo and 19 rounds of something different with black tip so 95 rounds

 

[ar10]

Doesn't the black tip indicate an AP round????

 

[xx7grant7x]

Yes AP ammo has a black tip making it worth a little more in my opinion, I was just curious what, if anything, anyone knew about said ammo/headstamp. From poking around the net I've gathered that TCW is tula ammunition manufacturing in russia that later became or owns the wolf brand. It does say on the package non-corrosive but i was basically wondering if this company actually produced AP ammo that made it to the states as well as what the other manufacturer is and if perhaps someone just dipped some pre-wolf ammo in black paint to rip me off.

 

[jonnyc]

Uh...
1. TCW is commercial ammo, and anything with a black tip would be a military load.
2. The USSR, or Russia that I know of, ever loaded a black-tipped 7.62x39 round of any kind.
Is it a black paint, or could the tips all be a bit corrosion darkened? Do the case mouths look well-sealed?


Just a thought, tear a bullet down and see if it has a pointed steel core. If not, it ain't AP.

 

[xx7grant7x]

not corroded, it's black paint and yes primers and bullets are sealed with some kind of sealant (red in color)

 

[mljdeckard]

Could it be ammo loaded with pulled U.S. recycled bullets?

 

[-v-]

The copper-washed stuff is probably Chinese 7.62x39. That bullet had a mild steel insert in the nose as a cost saving measure. $20 for a box of 20 is the going rate for them. They are not AP since the steel core is not hardened. They have been banned for import as the ATF classified them as AP ammo. Mainly because 7.62x39 pistols can fire them, and thus its considered "AP Pistol ammo" by their rules, as I understand.

As for the other stuff, post pics of the bullets + case heads, that should shed more light. I recall a recent post where another buyer got ripped off at a gunshow buying supposed surplus M855 green tip ammo, only to find it was reloads that were dipped in green paint....

 

[Shooter88]

Pull a bullet and weigh it. If it's ~125gr, you bought steel cased plinking ammo with the tips painted black. If it's heavier, you bought cheap plinking ammo somebody's reloaded with pulled projectiles from .30-06 AP rounds.

If it's the latter, I wouldn't fire them. Ever. Because Bubba probably just swapped out the projectiles without bothering to reload with a sane powder charge... so you have rounds with the appropriate powder charge for a 124gr bullet, underneath a ~165gr replacement bullet.

 

[Kindrox]

Is anyone else thinking what I am thinking? Maybe a great home business could be buying cheep commie block ammo, diping the the bullet tips in some black paint, and then jacking the price up 4X.

Seriously!

 

[max popenker]

what are headstamps of the ammo?

real deal / military AP ammo must have TCW factory code 539 and a two-digit year of manufacture (i.e. 86 for 1986 or 04 for 2004)

 

[Kindrox]

what are headstamps of the ammo?

He said his headstamp is 351 and was made in 1992. I think it is absolutly bonkers to pay that kind of money (premium ammo prices even now) for suplus x39 with random black painted tips from some dude at a gun show. I buy M855 on occasion but not in small (100 round) lots from unknown people without identifying packaging.

 

[Thin Black Line]

The copper-washed stuff is probably Chinese 7.62x39. That bullet had a mild steel insert in the nose as a cost saving measure. $20 for a box of 20 is the going rate for them. They are not AP since the steel core is not hardened.

Correct. And the entire nose appears similar to other bullets when pulled.
About the same weight, too, if I remember.

 

[jonnyc]

Having the same black-tipped bullet with both Russian commercial and Chinese military headstamps clinches the Bubba/Faker angle for me. I'd say you got hosed.

 

[briansmithwins]

I think we need some pics of these.

According to this page: http://club.guns.ru/eng/barnaul.html the Sov did make AP 7.62x39. Unfortunately they don't have pictures of those.

BSW

 

[rklessdriver]

The Coper washed is definatly NORINCO from China. I have quite a bit of it in my 7.62X39 supply. I bought all mine back in the very early 1990's. As others have said, it has does have some mild steel in the core and even thou not real AP was banned anyway...

TCW is Tula Cartrige Works and this ammo was sold in the USA back in the early to mid 1990's. I still have about 200-300rnds of it left over. I have some with red sealer (older) and some with green sealer (newer). The red sealer stuff really rust the gas system in my SKS's if I don't treat it and clean it like corrosive ammo even thou it clearly says on the box Non Corrosive...

BTW none of my TCW is black tipped. Boxes are white cardboard box with Red writing on them and the rounds are stacked in the box, wrapped in brown thin paper to seperate them. They orginally came in a sealed tins of 700rnds back then. I have bought and shot a couple thousand of these rounds over the years. I have not seen ANY since about 1995 or 1996. It is superbly accurate in my Norince SKS for some very odd reason....

Sorry but it sounds to me like you got - GOT - by another rip em off fun show dealer.
Will

 

[hso]

I've been shooting AKs for over a decade and I've never seen a black tipped AK round. Doesn't mean they don't exist, but the AP rounds I have seen for AKs haven't had a black tip and are as rklssdriver describes.

I'm afraid you've been cheated. But many others have been and continue to be as unscrupulous dealers sell old steel core 7.62X39 ammo as "armor piercing".

 

[Thin Black Line]

hso, it has been over 15 years since it floated around in the US and was in
very very small quantities when it did.

Here's some tests with it:

http://www.praetorianasc.com/demos_plate_test.php

A long time ago there use to be some crazy, but legal stuff, in circulation
in this country. Here's an example (yes, he wants $79 for 1 cartridge):

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8697631

But the SLAPO rds I remember look more like the ones farther down on this
page w/ sharper angled, pointier, gray, non-jacketed inserts:

http://www.snipersparadise.com/equipment/ammunition.htm

In any case, if you don't know what the real stuff looks like and it can be
some guy who just whittled out an accelerator to accept something larger
than a .223 bullet and then stuck it in a the correct head-stamped brass,
how are you really going to know that he held back the real nose if you've
never seen and touched the real thing?

Not saying the auctioner did it in this case, but it would be easy to do.

If you don't know your AP/API/APIT, then buyer beware.

 

[LeibstandarteAdH]

Russia has not loaded black tip "AP" ammo sence the 1930's, Well before 7.62x39 even existed.

TCW is the commercial headstamp tula used before the big "WOLF" days, if it was a military or contract loading it would be 187, 539, 541 or rarely TPZ if it was for a contract of some kind. The copper washed stuff is chinese, and judging from the former who knows what the projectiles in it actually are.


they are probibly just painted tips to make them more expensive or exotic looking, or at the best case reloads with real AP projos, and the most popular i have come across; they could also be reloads with painted tipped mild steel cored x54r projos to fool someone who cuts one open.

 

[xx7grant7x]

I agree i got hosed, it was an impulse buy, hey whatever, 75$ isn't the end of the world and whatever, live and learn, I knew 7.62x39 AP was rare to say the least but thought I was getting a deal. Next time i'll be more cautious no matter what the purchase, Pics seem unnecessary at this point but if there's an out-cry of people who want to see my folly then i'll dig the ammo out and take some.....makes a neat photo prop anyway and nothing more........

 

[LeibstandarteAdH]

pull one down with a pair of pliers and see if the projectile is really long with a crimp grove. They could be reloads of M2 projos after all but probibly not.