CA, MA, NY, NJ, etc residents: I need your help.

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freakshow10mm

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In these states, I am told those wishing to ship firearms in to FFLs need to go through some hoops. I think for CA I need to register with the DOJ or something, MA has a certain list of guns or something approved for sale in the state.

Does anyone know what I need to do or where I can look to find this info out? I'm an FFL. I'm not selling guns to LE/armed state agencies in those states, just the civilian gun owners.

Thanks,
Adam
 
For CA check over at Calguns.com. There seems to be a change or addition to paperwork. Just do a search the subject has been beat to death over there.:)
 
Lots of BS here in MA. We have an AWB - very much like the old Fed one. Pre ban('94) stuff is OK - rifle wise. For handguns, there are actually two lists (one of which is somewhat secret) - but basically, no new glocks, and lots of other bands. As a result a 15 year old G30 can for $700-800 :( NO fun here in the cradle of the American Revolution

Here's some background:
http://www.fsguns.com/fsg_information.html
 
NJ no state specific rules or regs that I am aware of for FFL -> FFL

Give Frank Caso of Caso's Gun a Rama in Jersey City a call, best to get it from an FFL. I bought my weapons through him and a really nice chap.

http://www.casosguns.com/

Caso's Gun-A-Rama, Inc.
176 Danforth Avenue
Jersey City, NJ 07305
(201) 435-5099
(201) 435-4132
[email protected]
 
In a few days those wishing to send firearms to a CA FFL will have to contact DOJ in CA first to see if it is an approved firearm by them.

Then after that you can send it to an approved FFL if you find one that will take it. Of course it will have to pass the first test. No FFL will be able to accept a firearm unless you have prior approval and no single person can send them without an approved FFL.

The new law goes into effect the first of July 2008 I believe.

I think this is the one you will want for new law

"""2008-BOF-05 (5/29/2008) [PDF 305 kb / 7 pg California Firearms Licensee Check Program (CFLC)"""

:uhoh:
 
Last edited:
Harley Quinn above is wrong about most things on Calif's CFLC program and is reporting urban legend. But he did get the date right, July 1 2008.


In a few days those wishing to send firearms to a CA FFL will have to contact DOJ in CA first to see if it is an approved firearm by them.

Then after that you can send it to an approved FFL if you find one that will take it. Of course it will have to pass the first test. No FFL will be able to accept a firearm unless you have prior approval and no single person can send them without an approved FFL. The new law goes into effect the first of July 2008....

Now, the facts:
  • The CFLC program, supporting regulations and law behind it ONLY
    deals with the "transaction" entity, not the minor tech details & approval
    status of the individual guns on that transaction. Roster status of
    handguns is not checked, that's up to CA FFL dealer. (They could,
    for example, be coming in for exempt LEO, or 12028PC exemptions for
    inheritance/probate or exempt intrafamilar transfer up or down the family
    line.)


    [If a CA FFL dealer orders a non-Rostered handgun (or someone orders
    it delivered to CA FFL dealer) he can't sell/transfer it to a CA resident
    (except LEO) and would have to figure out how to return it or flog it
    outside CA.]

  • THIS DOES NOT AFFECT TRANSFERS FROM NON-FFLs. An
    individual selling something on GunBroker can ship a firearm to a
    CA FFL dealer and is not affected by CFLC. (At this point, I don't think
    it's too bright for a non-CA FFL to act as an indiviudal to avoid CFLC.)

  • FFLs just enroll in CFLC via website. After a pro-forma quick approval
    (there's no reason they can deny, it just means the database is set up)
    the FFL just logs on and prints out the shipment letter everytime he does
    biz with a CA FFL. I believe a copy of the letter is shipped with the
    firearm going to CA. There's no obligation for non-CA FFL to keep the letter,
    the existence of the transaction is stored in the database.

  • The legal onus is on the CA FFL not the outta-state FFL. If the non-CA
    FFL screws up (other than something severe, say, sending in a machinegun)
    the CA FFL will either catch it or catch hell on his state audit.

  • Simple details are here :
    http://www.caag.state.ca.us/firearms/cflcoverview.php

It's of course a bunch of hooey.

The perceived legislative need for this was that (1) some folks were forging FFLs with Photoshop (I guess the purported shipper was not using BATF E-Z-Chek) and (2) some of the receiving FFLs were OK with ATF but did not have CA paperwork.

While the law itself sucks, the DOJ Firearms Bureau did not extend implementation beyond the scope of the law, which is good news and reflects some internal leadership changes.

Reports are it doesn't take that long to enroll, and a few minutes extra per transaction. [Web access to CFLC is 24/7, while phone/fax CFLC letter generation is only M-F 9-5 (approx.)] I'd bet nobody in CA will bitch if a source 49-state FFL adds an extra $5 CFLC fee.

Soon, The Calguns Foundation will be running ads in Shotgun News to clarify these matters, and will supply info for a web page on Calguns that accumulates a list of outta-state FFLs who are CFLC-compliant (as well as list those FFLs that have refused CA business.)

We California gunnies thank those that support us and help maintain the flow of guns into CA.

[I do wish to thank Bud's Gun Shop for publicly complying early with CFLC so that things run smoothly.]


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
 
Thanks for the link and info, Bill. I'm all set for California transfers. I just registered online and I can log in and such, so I think I'm all set. Seems like to ship to an FFL there, I need a special number that the receiving FFL provides me, then the number of firearms, and the shipment invoice number (would that be a number I make up or a tracking number from the carrier??).

You can add me to the list of CFLC-compliant FFLs. There will be no additional fees or charges for sending firearms to FFLs in California by my company. It is simply the retail price plus shipping. Dealing with the California rules is part of doing business and I will not sleep well charging for something like that.

Adam
 
AFAIK, in New York State there are no special requirements for FFL to FFL. There is an AWB that didn't sunset when the federal one did. Any FFL residing in NY State should know what will fly and what won't in terms of the AWB. They don't want to get stuck with any untransferable banned guns.
 
Urban legend Hmmm

The 3 different dealers I talked to don't accept from a ''non ffl'' in the first place "never have never will". The rest of the read is interesting, thanks. So it is CFLC and nothing to do with DOJ:confused:

Regards
 
Does anyone know what I need to do or where I can look to find this info out? I'm an FFL. I'm not selling guns to LE/armed state agencies in those states, just the civilian gun owners.

Could we discuss this one some more:uhoh:
 
Does anyone know what I need to do or where I can look to find this info out? I'm an FFL. I'm not selling guns to LE/armed state agencies in those states, just the civilian gun owners.
Could we discuss this one some more

I thought that the OP just meant that he's an FFL and wants to ship guns to other FFL's for transfer to people that he has sold them to, presumably online. That's the typical auction-site or classified-ad transaction. I would assume that the new California regs are prompting this inquiry.
 
MA is rather complex.

a gun must be on "the list" which is compiled based on melting point, drop safe etc
http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/firearms/Approved_Firearms_Roster_ 03_2008.pdf

even then soem of those firearms may not be available for purchase as they must also have some features from the AG list.. pay attention to the list, even if you think its ok, it could be wrong. Example. in MA i can get the Stainless steel Sig P232 but NOT the blued. ridiculous i know

anything semi's capable of taking more than 10 rounds ( rifle or pistol) is a high capacity gun
any semi shotgun over 5 rounds is hicap.

we still have an AWB thats an almost exact copy of the 94 ban
 
I thought that the OP just meant that he's an FFL and wants to ship guns to other FFL's for transfer to people that he has sold them to, presumably online. That's the typical auction-site or classified-ad transaction. I would assume that the new California regs are prompting this inquiry.
Yes, that's true. I am an FFL with a website that I sell firearms via mail order (and in person for locals). If I have a customer in CA that wants to buy a firearm from me, I have to ship it to an FFL in CA to do the transfer to the customer in person. I was told there are some weird rules about shipping guns to California, hence my thread.
 
Harley Quinn said:
Urban legend Hmmm

The 3 different dealers I talked to don't accept from a ''non ffl'' in
the first place "never have never will".

Well, that's those FFLs own fault/personal problems. It has nothing to do with the law. Find a better FFL.

It amazes me many FFLs just don't know what's actually allowed and not and overrestrict themselves for no good (legal) reason.

They are also protected by Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act for lawful interstate business if they're worried about trivia, stolen guns, etc.
Somehow they think coming from another FFL gives them 'protection' when it really doesn't.


Harley Quinn said:
So it is CFLC and nothing to do with DOJ?

CFLC is administered by the Calif DOJ Bureau of Firearms because the law was passed - just like any other law resulting in hoops to jump thru, whether or not the DOJ wanted to do the work or saw benefit to it, they still are legally obligated to administer it because the law said so.

We actually are fortunate new mgmt in the DOJ did not extend the regulations to go beyond the law.

While CFLC sucks, it's an irritant not a block.


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
 
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