Cast bullets in a Blackhawk?

[jski]

I'm not sure whether warnings concerning "lead" bullets apply when using hard cast lead alloys. I've pushed >1000 hard cast ... BHN 22 ... bullets thru my .30 Carbine Blackhawk and have experienced no fouling in the barrel. One other important point needs to be mentioned, these bullets are also gas checked.

But I continue the get warning concerning "evil" cast bullets.

Comments?

 

[drband]

I use hitek coated 18BHN in my .44mag SBH with NO fouling at all. Hot loads with W296. I think mine chrono'd @ something over 1400 FPS. I've also shot plain hardcast lead with that load and got mild fouling. A little leading, but more from the lube than lead, I think.

 

[LOLBELL]

Nothing "Evil" about a cast bullet at all. Thats all I shoot in my revolvers and a couple of long guns. I do gas check a 35 rem bullet but other than that they are all plain based home cast from clip on tire weights. I get good accuracy and no leading

If you will do the research to learn the ins and outs of cast bullets most any hand gun or long gun will shoot cast well. And you can push them pretty hard. I've got some magnums I run to 1200fps + with no problems.

Soft lead isn't as hard on your bore as copper either

 

[CraigC]

What's the source of these warnings? Sounds like ignorance.

 

[Sistema1927]

What warning?

Revolvers have been shooting cast bullets since their inception.

I know that some semi-auto manufacturers (Glock, cough) warn that using anything other than factory jacketed ammo will void the warranty, but I have never seen the same for any revolver.

 

[LOLBELL]

What's the source of these warnings? Sounds like ignorance.

^^What He Said ^^

 

[MaxP]

My exact sentiments. Does sound like ignorance.

 

[reddog81]

What warnings?

If you aren't experiencing any negative side effects, why would you worry about it?

 

[highlander 5]

Haven't read a Ruger owner's manual of late but I seem to remember a warning about "reloaded/remanufacured ammo" but if the OP was told lead ammo is a no no how did the owners of firearms manage till the invention of jacketed bullets.

 

[jski]

From another thread on another site:

I wrote:

"My current plan with the .30 Carbine Blackhawk is to go in the opposite direction. To that end I purchased 200 GC, hard cast (BHN 22), .309 bullets from Montana Bullet Works. These puppies definitely do not pass the "push test" (into the forcing cone). But my understanding was if you're at .308 with jacketed/plated bullets then you'll want .309 with cast bullets."

I got:

"Here's the deal with lead bullets: Yes, a gas check helps prevent lead fouling in the bore but it doesn't help the rifling grab the bullet with higher velocities. With a jacketed bullet, the rifling will grab the bullet and force it to spin. When lead bullets are driven fast, even with a gas check, they tend to skip across the lands and grooves instead of getting a good grip. So what you have in a 30 Carb BH when shooting lead bullets is ... you can't drive them fast enough to maintain downrange stability without "skinning" the bullets. Lowering the velocity will fix the "skinning" problem but makes stability downrange a problem. As I noted before, about the only way to get decent accuracy from a 30 Carb BH is to use 100~110 gr jacketed bullet and drive them to at least 1500 fps."

 

[BobWright]

I have recovered .44 Magnum cast bullets driven to over 1500 f.p.s. and they had the classic engraved rifling marks. These hard cast commercial bullets.

And there was not one blamed thing wrong with their down range accuracy!

Bob Wright

And, yes these were chronographed at 1503 f.p.s. with a 245 gr. cast and a healthy dose of Hercules (then) 2400 powder.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Elmer Keith developed the .44 magnum using bullets with a BHN of about 11.

Having your bullets the correct size for your gun and lubed properly is more important than BHN. In fact a bullet that is too hard can cause more leading problems than a bullet that is too soft.

I have pushed wheel weight alloy (about 11 or 12 BHN) to some pretty high velocities using 2400 and H110 in my Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt.

 

[walnut1704]

Well he's speaking specifically about the .30 carbine BH, which I have no direct experience with.

However his argument is unconvincing. Rifle shooters push cast bullets that hard or harder with great success. I don't buy it. Go prove him wrong.

 

[jski]

Form: TAFFIN TESTS: THE .30 CARBINE BLACKHAWK

"It did not take me long to fall in love with the .30 Carbine Blackhawk. "Hey, Joe, wanna sell it?" The combination of light, almost non-existent, recoil with excellent accuracy, makes the .30 Blackhawk a real pleasurable sixgun to say the least.

Since the .30 Carbine is a rimless cartridge, it must headspace on the front of the case mouth in the Ruger's cylinder. This means no crimp on the bullet which can be a problem in a revolver. In this case, recoil is not enough to cause the bullets in the remaining cases to move forward. But, a good crimp is usually necessary to get the powder burning properly. The answer to the later problem is a taper crimp die which puts a long firm pull on the bullet in the loaded brass. It is also necessary for the best accuracy.

...

Many sixguns shoot well with jacketed bullets; others do well with cast bullets. Happiness is finding one that does both. The Ruger .30 Carbine does both. The Hensley & Gibbs #205, 105 grain round-nosed bullet gives fast steppin', tack-drivin' results. Some examples are 9.0 grains of Herco (1485 fps, 1 1/4"), 12.0 grains of AA#9 (1560 fps, 3/4"), 14.5 grains of WW296 (1426 fps, 1") 14.5 grains of H4227 (1563 fps, 5/8"), and 16.5 grains of AA#1680 (1305 fps, 3/4"). For milder loads, four to five grains of Bullseye, WW231, or WW452AA all give groups under one-inch at muzzle velocities of 850 to 1150 feet per second.

The short range silhouette Hunter/Field Pistol course was seemingly designed with the Blackhawk .30 Carbine in mind. The same cast bullet loads used for silhouetting can be used for small game shooting and varmints are well handled with either the 100 grain Plinker or 110 grain Varminter. By no stretch of the imagination, with these loads or any others, should the .30 Carbine be considered a big game gun. It is well below the .357 Magnum which is marginal at best for anything much larger than small deer. Keep the Carbine as it should be: for varmints, small game, plinking, and short-range silhouetting. I'm just sorry I took so long to get around to trying one. "

 

[reddog81]

"When lead bullets are driven fast, even with a gas check, they tend to skip across the lands and grooves instead of getting a good grip."

Do people actually believe this? Unless the bullet is dramatically undersized there is no way it's going to go bouncing down the barrel.

 

[jski]

Just to add further confusion, Buffalo Bore is offering:

FULL POWER+ 30 M1 CARBINE 125 gr. Hard Cast, FN-GC @ 2,100 fps

And it appears to be primarily targeted at the .30 Carbine Blackhawk.

 

[eldon519]

I don't think there is any confusion. You got bad advice from one guy on an internet forum. Just ignore it and move on.

 

[LOLBELL]

While I don't have a 30 carbine, I have done a good bit of experimenting with the 327 Fed Mag which is a very close cousin to the 30. I have pushed it to 1500fps with a 98 grain SWC cast out of a RCBS mold with tire weights. I shoot these in a Blackhawk, Single Seven, Sp101, and a GP100.

AA9 is my choice for magnum loads with Unique for plinking stuff. I use WSP primer in the light stuff and a CCI Small RIFLE primer for the heavy stuff. I get good accuracy and no leading with either of these loads.

I can not comment on long range accuracy as I have only shot these loads out to about 50yds and this with only the Blackhawk. I did get minute of 8" pie plate @ 50

 

[25-20 WCF]

Lots of Internet experts repeat BS they heard from another wannabe keyboard warrior. The fact is that cast bullets can be pushed over 2400 fps without excessive leading if loaded correctly. Skipping over the lands? Poppycock.

All firearms foul the bore with combustion byproducts. All of them "lead" too, although with jacketed bullets it is "coppered". Correctly-designed cast loads can leave minimal lead left in the bore, but there will be some in any firearm. But even well-designed cast loads can lead terribly in a revolver with too-small cylinder throats.

I used a 10" Contender in .30 Carbine for years when silhouette shooting, launching a 165-grain cast bullet at 1600 fps. Very accurate after 80 rounds without cleaning too.

.

 

[gotboostvr]

Most of my experience with cast boolits are at speeds under 1000fps, but I'll send hundreds of 38's and 45's downrange with no noticeable leading or degradation in accuracy through my revolvers.

Most of my cast magnum loads are in 44mag sent through either a 629, or a Rossi 92 and I'll see a little leading around where the barrel threads into the frame of my 629. It seems to be self limiting though and accuracy is always great, although both guns prefer XTP's. To be honest, I haven't done as thorough load development as I have with the XTP's. 100+ lead magnums haven't shown enough leading to be of concern in my experience with my guns.
I typically use missouri bullet company's offerings, although Matt's bullets are a very nice product as well, and all that I shoot in 500mag albeit with a gas check.

 

[Saleen322]

I shoot mostly cast bullets out of my 327 magnums. The plain base cast bullets do fine at the lower velocities. I use them in 32 S&W Long cases and even the 32 Mag cases. However higher velocity loads in 327 Mags all do much better with a gas check design. It has been years since I loaded for 30 Carbine in a revolver but I would expect it would be similar to the 327.

 

[dickydalton]

Boy am I ever in trouble......

 

[hdbiker]

I fired many thousands of hard cast MBC semi WC's threw my Black Halk .357 and Super Black Hawk .44, full power loads with minimal or no leading.Very accurate also. hdbiker