Choosing a police duty gun....
- Thread starter Dbl0Kevin
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Plinkerton
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- Apr 27, 2004
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I think so too. I have heard too many good things about these to not consider one.
I always thought the XD's were ugly glock look-a-likes, but I have also noticed them getting a lot of praise lately. They still lack the manual safety and I doubt their trigger is much better than a Glock......but I guess it wouldn't hurt to handle one. Who knows....I might like the damn thing.
Edit: As I thought:
Trigger Pull: 5.5 to 7.7 lbs. Ultra Safety Assurance (USATM) action trigger system
Somehow I bet it'll be just as sloppy as a Glock as well.
Edit: As I thought:
Trigger Pull: 5.5 to 7.7 lbs. Ultra Safety Assurance (USATM) action trigger system
Somehow I bet it'll be just as sloppy as a Glock as well.
The Reverend
Member
Why would a light rail be a major factor for you?
Are you going to carry a light consistently on your sidearm?
If not the light rail would not be an issue. Besides, a full size mag light would be a handy thing to have in certain situations anyway.
Having experience with all of the firearmsyou mentioned although not in a LE capacity, I would pick either SIGs or S&Ws without question. But I pick my personal defence firearms with less complicated restrictions. The single most important factor it finding what fits me best. All of the guns you list are good guns, but all are radically different in form and function. This is the single most important tool you will have on your belt, and because of that it needs to be unique to you in the best possible ways. Your level of experience will also play a factor. If you are not a "gun nut" like many of us, the Glock may be the better choice due to its simplicity in its manual of arms.
The arguments revolving around 9mm vs. .40 vs .357 vs .45 are tired and the reality is ALL have good track records. Narrow your field down to 2 or 3 and then start asking questions.
God Bless and thanks for your desire to serve.
Are you going to carry a light consistently on your sidearm?
If not the light rail would not be an issue. Besides, a full size mag light would be a handy thing to have in certain situations anyway.
Having experience with all of the firearmsyou mentioned although not in a LE capacity, I would pick either SIGs or S&Ws without question. But I pick my personal defence firearms with less complicated restrictions. The single most important factor it finding what fits me best. All of the guns you list are good guns, but all are radically different in form and function. This is the single most important tool you will have on your belt, and because of that it needs to be unique to you in the best possible ways. Your level of experience will also play a factor. If you are not a "gun nut" like many of us, the Glock may be the better choice due to its simplicity in its manual of arms.
The arguments revolving around 9mm vs. .40 vs .357 vs .45 are tired and the reality is ALL have good track records. Narrow your field down to 2 or 3 and then start asking questions.
God Bless and thanks for your desire to serve.
Rev, I'm most definately a gun nut.....I didn't get nicknamed "Tackleberry" during the police academy for nothing. 
As to the flashlight mount, yes I was planning on carrying a tac light on my sidearm while on duty. I hadn't really thought about it until I went out to NM for a ride-along and the officer I was with had a tac light on his Glock that the dept had issued him along with the holster to fit it. This seemed like a darn good idea after thinking about it.
One would think being a gun nut would make the choice easier......WRONG. I like something different about all the choices and it's making it very hard to pick ONE of them. :banghead:
As to the flashlight mount, yes I was planning on carrying a tac light on my sidearm while on duty. I hadn't really thought about it until I went out to NM for a ride-along and the officer I was with had a tac light on his Glock that the dept had issued him along with the holster to fit it. This seemed like a darn good idea after thinking about it.
One would think being a gun nut would make the choice easier......WRONG. I like something different about all the choices and it's making it very hard to pick ONE of them. :banghead:
bradvanhorn
Member
Oh are you in for a surprise. There is absolutely no similarity between the XD and Glock trigger pull. For a stock trigger, the XD is almost light and smooth. The Glock? Not...
denfoote
Member
Two words.
Glock 21!!
Kinda hard to beat 13 (I think) rounds of .45ACP!!!
If I could go back to chasing tail lights for a living my choice would be a Springfield XD. I just bought a XD9 Sub Compact for CC and I am very impressed. For uniform carry I would pick a 5" .357 SIG and add nightsights and a combo light/laser. Holsters are starting to become more common, including uniform/security holsters.
I realize that Croatia isn't as sexy as Austria, but that's OK, there was a time in history when American smallarms were considered second rate to British, too.
Good luck, and keep your head straight, it's your best tool.
I realize that Croatia isn't as sexy as Austria, but that's OK, there was a time in history when American smallarms were considered second rate to British, too.
Good luck, and keep your head straight, it's your best tool.
Kevin,
Although I've never been a real Glock lover, I attended their Armorer's school, and had many who carried them on our range. When the Mod27 came out, I bought one for undercover drug use and it was a great package for concealed carry.
9mm isn't my thing, but I did like my .40.
I have to agree on the Springfield XD though. I haven't shot one as yet, but I did have the 1911 Springfield for a couple years and in my opinion, it was better than the Colts.
If the XD is half as good as they report, I think that it'll give Glocks a run for their money.
By the way, we did have one incident on the range several years ago regarding a Glock. A basic training academy was using our range and one of the young recruits tried to holster his Glock .40 with his finger still on the trigger. Shot himself in the butt cheek.
Luckily it was hardball ammo and the round went straight through ricocheting off the floor. Missed his scyatic nerve by 1/2".
Needless to say, it wasn't on my watch.
I guess no gun is rookie proof.
Bob
Although I've never been a real Glock lover, I attended their Armorer's school, and had many who carried them on our range. When the Mod27 came out, I bought one for undercover drug use and it was a great package for concealed carry.
9mm isn't my thing, but I did like my .40.
I have to agree on the Springfield XD though. I haven't shot one as yet, but I did have the 1911 Springfield for a couple years and in my opinion, it was better than the Colts.
If the XD is half as good as they report, I think that it'll give Glocks a run for their money.
By the way, we did have one incident on the range several years ago regarding a Glock. A basic training academy was using our range and one of the young recruits tried to holster his Glock .40 with his finger still on the trigger. Shot himself in the butt cheek.
Luckily it was hardball ammo and the round went straight through ricocheting off the floor. Missed his scyatic nerve by 1/2".
Needless to say, it wasn't on my watch.
I guess no gun is rookie proof.
Bob
armoredman
Member
CZ PO1, or did I already say that?
There may well be some sort of an "approved" list you will have to work from. Dept. issue is a good thing if the piece works for you. Ergonomics matter a lot. If the gun fits you--really fits you--everything gets a lot easier and you will have a lot more confidence as a result.
Case in point--I carried a wheelgun for years after I could have opted for a semiauto, just because it was stone reliable and fit my hand like it grew there. I still carry it in retirement for the same reasons.
Early on I carried a LW Commander but had to give it up. Never really went back to the 1911 platform for serious carry, but did futz around with Glocks and SIGs as an instructor/armorer. Never could learn to love or hit well with the Glocks, and the SIG 220 is about 10% too big for my small hand. OTOH, I have been playing with a Ruger P97 of late and for me it's very "user-friendly". So it's a very individual thing ( contrary to what the bean-counters think).
Ditto on the vest and get all the street-survival training (Calibre Press, etc.) you can. Those two things are more important than guns & bullets.
Case in point--I carried a wheelgun for years after I could have opted for a semiauto, just because it was stone reliable and fit my hand like it grew there. I still carry it in retirement for the same reasons.
Early on I carried a LW Commander but had to give it up. Never really went back to the 1911 platform for serious carry, but did futz around with Glocks and SIGs as an instructor/armorer. Never could learn to love or hit well with the Glocks, and the SIG 220 is about 10% too big for my small hand. OTOH, I have been playing with a Ruger P97 of late and for me it's very "user-friendly". So it's a very individual thing ( contrary to what the bean-counters think).
Ditto on the vest and get all the street-survival training (Calibre Press, etc.) you can. Those two things are more important than guns & bullets.
Roadkill Coyote
Member
I work for a smaller, relatively rural agency. We have fairly wide lattitude in choosing our duty weapons. It has been my observation, over the years, that most of our deputies end up carrying something other than their initial choice. I don't think that it's due to the failings of any particular weapon. Instead I think that most people have a much better idea of what they want out of a duty weapon after they carry one for a year or two.
I think you would be crazy not to take the Department's Glock and use it for the first year or so. During that time you can shoot everybody elses at quals and watch as your fellow officers conduct a year long torture test before your very eyes. In the interim, you've got more money for the excellent training recommended by Messer Dienekes. Make it to the Calibre Press Seminar as soon as you get the opportunity.
I think you would be crazy not to take the Department's Glock and use it for the first year or so. During that time you can shoot everybody elses at quals and watch as your fellow officers conduct a year long torture test before your very eyes. In the interim, you've got more money for the excellent training recommended by Messer Dienekes. Make it to the Calibre Press Seminar as soon as you get the opportunity.
Andrew Wyatt
Member
you can get add on rails for 1911s.
what about a BHP in .40 or 9mm? they make rails for those, as well.
what about a BHP in .40 or 9mm? they make rails for those, as well.
1goodshot
Member
Which of the guns do you shoot the best? That would be the gun you should get. Go to a range that has rental guns and try them before you buy them.
Well I THINK that I've finally come up with a decision. After thinking about this long and hard I've decided to go with a 1911 since it was the first gun I've ever shot and have practiced with one since I was 14. I know the gun like the back of my hand and can probably do anything to it with my eyes closed. I've always liked the single action trigger pull, the natural pointability, manual safety, and the .45 acp cartridge. I figure that with an 8 round mag and 1 in the chamber that would give me 9 shots of .45 which ain't half bad, and I'll just carry 4 extra mags instead of 2 as I have no problem with quick mag changes since it's like second nature to me. I've also solved the only real advantage of the Glock that was keeping me coming back to it......the backup gun. So unless something comes along to change my mind here are my primary and backup weapons:
backed up by:
After I can afford both of them of course.
backed up by:
After I can afford both of them of course.
1. You are very fortunate to belong to a dept that allows you to chose your duty weapon. Take advantage of this if you don't like the issued weapon. If the issued weapon is fine, go with it. That will be anything between $400-600 in your pocket, which you can use for other things. Like ammo. Or a vest. Or a BUG.
2. 'Pretty' should not be one of your search criteria. Pretty is as pretty does. This is a duty gun, not a look-cool gun.
3. Go with the one you shoot best. Caliber wars are stupid. If you shoot a 9mm like a pro and shoot a .45 with less accuracy, go with the 9mm.
4. Light rails are a GOOD THING. I'm convinced that anyone who thinks they're hyped tactical BS has never done a no-light scenario with a flashlight (as opposed to just lining up and shooting targets in the dark). Oh you have? Great. How many times did you reload? If you managed to keep your gun on target, the target illuminated and got your weapon reloaded quickly, I wanna know where you had your third arm installed.
One of the lights (M3?) has a belt clip where you can keep it on your belt and use it as a handheld flashlight, and then clip it on your sidearm in about 1 second. Me, personally? I'd leave it on the gun 24/7 and carry a maglight on my belt. Best of both worlds.
5. This is important. Take in all of the firearm advice from your fellow LEOs with a nod and a smile. And then chuck it into the dumpster until you can figure out who knows their arse from a rabbit hole and who is prone to telling tall tales. Many cops are not shooters, and all cops like to tell war stories. And no war story is better then the bulletproof suspect, who shrugged of 30 rounds of X and eventually succumed to being shot in the pinky with one round of Y. The close 2nd-place story is how Gun Z always runs but gun W is a jammomatic. Coming in third is how Ultra Black Ninja ammo will blow a hole in a suspect's chest a foot in diameter, but Mega Super Tactical ammo just bounces off.
6. Practice.
7. Practice.
8. Practice.
9. Practice.
10. Practice.
2. 'Pretty' should not be one of your search criteria. Pretty is as pretty does. This is a duty gun, not a look-cool gun.
3. Go with the one you shoot best. Caliber wars are stupid. If you shoot a 9mm like a pro and shoot a .45 with less accuracy, go with the 9mm.
4. Light rails are a GOOD THING. I'm convinced that anyone who thinks they're hyped tactical BS has never done a no-light scenario with a flashlight (as opposed to just lining up and shooting targets in the dark). Oh you have? Great. How many times did you reload? If you managed to keep your gun on target, the target illuminated and got your weapon reloaded quickly, I wanna know where you had your third arm installed.
One of the lights (M3?) has a belt clip where you can keep it on your belt and use it as a handheld flashlight, and then clip it on your sidearm in about 1 second. Me, personally? I'd leave it on the gun 24/7 and carry a maglight on my belt. Best of both worlds.
5. This is important. Take in all of the firearm advice from your fellow LEOs with a nod and a smile. And then chuck it into the dumpster until you can figure out who knows their arse from a rabbit hole and who is prone to telling tall tales. Many cops are not shooters, and all cops like to tell war stories. And no war story is better then the bulletproof suspect, who shrugged of 30 rounds of X and eventually succumed to being shot in the pinky with one round of Y. The close 2nd-place story is how Gun Z always runs but gun W is a jammomatic. Coming in third is how Ultra Black Ninja ammo will blow a hole in a suspect's chest a foot in diameter, but Mega Super Tactical ammo just bounces off.
6. Practice.
7. Practice.
8. Practice.
9. Practice.
10. Practice.
Tango Sierra
Member
I also recommend that you check the department's list of approved guns and calibers. I got an excellent deal on a LNIB Springfield XD-357Sig because a guy didn't check to see if the .357Sig caliber was an approved round. He never even shot it and had to trade it in on a XD .40S&W. You should add the XD to your list of considerations. I like the XD trigger better than the stock Glock trigger; it's much smoother but the Glock has a shorter reset. Even my LEO neighbor who has always preferred Glock over other brands thought so when he tried my XD. Both the Glock and XD trigger's can be improved but a lot of department's don't allow trigger modifications.
See if you can rent or shoot someone else's guns before you decide. Hand fit really helps when it comes to shooting well.
What ever brand of gun you buy, no matter how good it's reputation is, be sure and fire a few hundred rounds of what ever your duty ammo will be to make sure it's reliable before carrying it for self defense. Of all my guns, my SIG Sauer P220 is my least reliable. That doesn't mean SIG doesn't deserve it's reputation for reliability but any brand can have it's lemons. It's better to be safe than sorry.
I'd say take the department issued Glock and as you add guns to your personal gun nut collection you will find the one you like best and then qualify with it for carry duty.
I've been composing this reply while reading through this thread and now see you've made your choice. When my son joined his department two years ago he chose an H&K USP45. Most of the officers in his department carried Glocks and the chief carried a USP (which my son didn't know when he made his choice). The department has started to send a few officers at a time to an advanced firearms training school and six of those guys switched to 1911s after attending the training.
See if you can rent or shoot someone else's guns before you decide. Hand fit really helps when it comes to shooting well.
What ever brand of gun you buy, no matter how good it's reputation is, be sure and fire a few hundred rounds of what ever your duty ammo will be to make sure it's reliable before carrying it for self defense. Of all my guns, my SIG Sauer P220 is my least reliable. That doesn't mean SIG doesn't deserve it's reputation for reliability but any brand can have it's lemons. It's better to be safe than sorry.
I'd say take the department issued Glock and as you add guns to your personal gun nut collection you will find the one you like best and then qualify with it for carry duty.
I've been composing this reply while reading through this thread and now see you've made your choice. When my son joined his department two years ago he chose an H&K USP45. Most of the officers in his department carried Glocks and the chief carried a USP (which my son didn't know when he made his choice). The department has started to send a few officers at a time to an advanced firearms training school and six of those guys switched to 1911s after attending the training.
That's about what I was going to do. Though I'm sure the first on the list will be the Kimber's that I posted above. After I get them and test them out for a while as long as they live up to expectations and are reliable then I'll probably switch over to them as the duty weapon. Unless of course by some chance something else comes along that I like better.
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