Concealed carry ammo.....?

[Archangel14]

LOL! That is a funny reply.

But seriously, imagine if you were George Zimmerman right now. And imagine if he hand loaded the very round that killed that kid. I'm be amazed if the prosecutor didn't try to say something like:

"....and Ladies and Gentleman, Mr. Zimmerman's mental state and intent at the time of the shooting will be demonstrated by, among other things, evidence that he actually made his own bullets!"

I can hear the collective gasp of the jurors, all who probably never hand loaded before and are unaware that you can do so. Take my advice, and remember that stepping outside of your home can be dangerous business!

 

[Spats McGee]

As far as the marketing of defensive rounds, I'd be comfortable carrying "defensive" rounds, or "generic" rounds like WWB, for example. What I would scrupulously avoid is anything with names like "Widowmaker," or "ManKiller."

 

[mljdeckard]

A prosecutor who is trying to hang you up MAY say a variety of things to do so. I think it would be (to put it mildly) the LEAST of George Zimmerman's worries.

If stepping outside my home is so dangerous, perhaps I shouldn't do it at all?

 

[Lawdawg45]

MLJdeckard: Please, just follow me on this one. EVERY TIME there is a shooting, particularly a fatal shooting, there WILL be a serious investigation. Even if it's been determined that you acted in justifiable defense, the incident will be placed under tremendous scrutiny. My position, which is backed up by 18 YEARS OF COURTROOM EXPERIENCE, OVER 100 JURY TRIALS, AT LEAST 25 TRIALS INVOLVING SHOOTINGS, and having otherwise handled hundreds of gun-related cases, many which were self-defense cases, has NOTHING to do with:

1. The reliability of handloads,
2. The preferred manstopper: factory or handload,
3. Ballistic characteristics,
4. lead vs. copper,
5. Or any other scenario concerning which bullet is best for SD.

It has EVERYTHING to do with someone discharging a firearm in self defense, subsequently falling under police scrutiny, GETTING UNJUSTIFIABLY CHARGED with having killed someone, and then hoping, no BEGGING GOD, that his or her attorney convinces several people who are likely to be totally uneducated concerning firearms, or are BIASED toward firearms, that the idea of a hand loaded round is simply okay. I had a juror tell me after a trial that the hollow point round is designed to "kill, nothing more. They should be banned". This, after expert and well presented testimony concerning the reality of HP's. You want to carry in self defense? Good, I congratulate you. But do so in a manner that protects you from the MILLIONS of ignorant people out there.

And another point....this was good, free advice to you. Accept it....next time you're on the clock!

I agree, but as the OP asked, I have never seen this insane curiosity come from the Police or Prosecutor, just the bottom feeding private counsel. I would be interested to see any case where the shooting was determined to be justified, but the victim was prosecuted for using "zombie" ammo.

LD

 

[Spats McGee]

A prosecutor who is trying to hang you up MAY say a variety of things to do so. I think it would be (to put it mildly) the LEAST of George Zimmerman's worries.

I agree. Of all the things I worry about in choosing carry ammo, the gimmick used to market a given round is fairly far down on my priority list. That said, I do take the possible effect on jury perception into account.

. . . .I would be interested to see any case where the shooting was determined to be justified, but the victim was prosecuted for using "zombie" ammo.

LD

Carrying "zombie" ammo isn't illegal, so you're unlike to find such a case. You can't (or shouldn't) be prosecuted for a legal activity. That doesn't necessarily make it a good idea, though.

I look at it this way: If I can choose between generic (white box) rounds and the "WidowMaker 3000" (complete with a mall ninja & a death's head on the box), and they are equivalent in terms of performance, I'll take the generic rounds.

 

[Archangel14]

Yeah, I guess I'm a "bottom feeder". Unlike that prosecutor who brought charges against those Duke Lacrosse boys. Or the very prosecutor who now persecutes Zimmerman. Or that idiot DA who changed the OJ venue so as not to "offend" as certain segment of society. Or the prosecutor in one of my cases a few years ago who admitted to fabricating evidence. No, no such thing as a bad prosecutor. Maybe you should tell the kid I got off on murder charges on self defense that I'm the bottom feeder, not the DA who prosecuted him because it was a big headliner and a great career advancer. If I recall, 12 people agreed with me that it was self defense. The DA disagreed, but I'm sure he was correct. Go ahead, load up your home made ammo, leave the home. I'm sure you won't have any problems at all if you find yourself in a fatal shooting. Your a legal genius. I'll call you when I have legal trouble.

 

[mljdeckard]

I'm a legal genius who knows the difference between "your" and "you're".

 

[Archangel14]

Hey Mljdeckard.....thanks for pointing out my spelling error. That sinks my argument in your eyes? You kidding me friend? That's your reply?

There's a great poster on this forum who has a by-line that reads something like "I learn from the mistakes of others". I'm "paraphrasing" (did I spell that correctly?). Maybe all of you legal geniuses should take that bit of friendly advice.

Now go load up and head out Rambo....I'm sure you got all the angle covered!

 

[Archangel14]

Spats....that's my point. No, we should not be prosecuted for legal activities. And that includes acting in lawful self defense with a firearm. The problem we see far too often is that what should be deemed legal is deemed illegal by the prosecuting authorities. We then find ourselves in court fighting an unjust prosecution. There's no need to give them any "ammo", so to speak. If you carry, please give great thought to every aspect of it. It's more fraught with potential headaches than first meets the eye.

God Bless..........

 

[the Black Spot]

So I bought the blazer 44 special 200 gr jhp ammo, box says its for practicing, has aluminum cases. Pretty sure I am good with these rounds.
Pretty slim chance of me getting into a scrape anyway, but the boy scout in me says "be prepared"

 

[Trad Archer]

How about Zombie ammo?

 

[mljdeckard]

No, your rhetoric and hyperbole do.

 

[Lawdawg45]

Yeah, I guess I'm a "bottom feeder". Unlike that prosecutor who brought charges against those Duke Lacrosse boys. Or the very prosecutor who now persecutes Zimmerman. Or that idiot DA who changed the OJ venue so as not to "offend" as certain segment of society. Or the prosecutor in one of my cases a few years ago who admitted to fabricating evidence. No, no such thing as a bad prosecutor. Maybe you should tell the kid I got off on murder charges on self defense that I'm the bottom feeder, not the DA who prosecuted him because it was a big headliner and a great career advancer. If I recall, 12 people agreed with me that it was self defense. The DA disagreed, but I'm sure he was correct. Go ahead, load up your home made ammo, leave the home. I'm sure you won't have any problems at all if you find yourself in a fatal shooting. Your a legal genius. I'll call you when I have legal trouble.

Simmer down sparky, we appreciate your opinion but you must admit that there are as many horror stories with private counsel as there are Prosecutors, and while you've had experience with trying these cases, some of us have been on the shooting side of the case (myself included). This forum allows both sides to contribute information and opinion. When a Prosecutor looks at a fatal case, they determine if the shooting was justified and not at the method used. If I'm defending myself against a knife wielding suspect, the fact that I used my Glock or a coal shovel is unimportant. The people who look at these details with magnification are the private counsel either defending a wounded criminal or the family of a dead one looking for a bureaucratic payout in a civil case. BTW, I would never carry reloads in a CCW, if that was also directed at me.

LD

 

[Archangel14]

LawDawg....there are some really scummy defense guys, as you well know. But I think that the "scummy" factor comes not so much from the way they conduct themselves in court, but essentially from the fact that they have what appears to be a distasteful job. I mean, really, how can we look at the guy who constantly represents accused murderers and say, "what a great guy!" Some will, but not most people. Around my parts there was a well known defense attorney who recently died. He loved representing sex offenders. That was his big thing. I found that entirely creepy, as did most other practitioners (prosecution and defense). Few in the legal field attended his funeral (I don't know why I did!). But I must say, he was very honest in the way he conducted his defenses. I've seen too many law guys bend the truth purposely to get that conviction. I guess you almost have to with the state of our laws.

And I guess you agree that if you're going to carry, it is VERY serious business and we must be VERY mindful about how we go about doing it?

 

[Lawdawg45]

LawDawg....there are some really scummy defense guys, as you well know. But I think that the "scummy" factor comes not so much from the way they conduct themselves in court, but essentially from the fact that they have what appears to be a distasteful job. I mean, really, how can we look at the guy who constantly represents accused murderers and say, "what a great guy!" Some will, but not most people. Around my parts there was a well known defense attorney who recently died. He loved representing sex offenders. That was his big thing. I found that entirely creepy, as did most other practitioners (prosecution and defense). Few in the legal field attended his funeral (I don't know why I did!). But I must say, he was very honest in the way he conducted his defenses. I've seen too many law guys bend the truth purposely to get that conviction. I guess you almost have to with the state of our laws.

And I guess you agree that if you're going to carry, it is VERY serious business and we must be VERY mindful about how we go about doing it?

Agree 100% my friend. May your influence as an honest practitioner with integrity be extremely contagious among your profession!

LD

 

[PabloJ]

Top quality defensive rounds in useful caliber are only $40-$50 for box of 50. Police surplus in 9x19 or 10mm short can be had for substantially less. Please see Glock 20 kBOOM topic..... buying quality ammo will almost eliminate chance of something like that happening to you.

 

[jason41987]

ive been reading this post.. handloaded, not handloaded, hollow points or not... and i have to ask myself what others have asked... is there something you can get in a handload you cant get with factory ammo?.... sure we handload to save money, but buying a box of factory ammo specifically for self defense shouldnt be much of a burden.... just take them out and shoot off your handloads when youre target practicing

as for hollow points vs... since this is a revolver forum, ill use SWCs as the alternative... what are you carrying for self defense? 357 magnum? 44?... do these need hollow points to be devestatingly effective?... and with a 38 special would you get the necessary penetration with them?... and is your placement so off that you hope theyll die in the hour or so itll take them to bleed to death because you failed to hit anything vital?

honestly... i doubt it would matter for me one way or another if i ever had to go to trial for self defense... i dont have a family, im not a scout leader, or a teacher, heck, i dont do much in my community and spent most my time in highschool in detention or suspended... but no, i wouldnt hurt anyone if given any other choice... even got in fights in highschool protecting smaller guys and girls from bullies... most people are smaller than me anyway, and unless they had a weapon im confident enough in my own abilities...

however.. simply because i dont look the part of the perfect husband and father, prefer to ride a motorcycle over driving my car, and would probably show up to court in jeans and boots as opposed to a suit (because i dont have formal wear)... i would probably end up doing jail time... and its not right, its not fair, the best i can do to avoid that is the best i can do to avoid the situations and minimize anything anyone could use against me relating to the incident itself

 

[Lawdawg45]

ive been reading this post.. handloaded, not handloaded, hollow points or not... and i have to ask myself what others have asked... is there something you can get in a handload you cant get with factory ammo?.... sure we handload to save money, but buying a box of factory ammo specifically for self defense shouldnt be much of a burden.... just take them out and shoot off your handloads when youre target practicing

as for hollow points vs... since this is a revolver forum, ill use SWCs as the alternative... what are you carrying for self defense? 357 magnum? 44?... do these need hollow points to be devestatingly effective?... and with a 38 special would you get the necessary penetration with them?... and is your placement so off that you hope theyll die in the hour or so itll take them to bleed to death because you failed to hit anything vital?

honestly... i doubt it would matter for me one way or another if i ever had to go to trial for self defense... i dont have a family, im not a scout leader, or a teacher, heck, i dont do much in my community and spent most my time in highschool in detention or suspended... but no, i wouldnt hurt anyone if given any other choice... even got in fights in highschool protecting smaller guys and girls from bullies... most people are smaller than me anyway, and unless they had a weapon im confident enough in my own abilities...

however.. simply because i dont look the part of the perfect husband and father, prefer to ride a motorcycle over driving my car, and would probably show up to court in jeans and boots as opposed to a suit (because i dont have formal wear)... i would probably end up doing jail time... and its not right, its not fair, the best i can do to avoid that is the best i can do to avoid the situations and minimize anything anyone could use against me relating to the incident itself

Jason, the process judges you on the facts of the case, interpreted by a jury of your peers, not the expensive suit crowd. You should see the collection of ghetto trash that walks out Scott free wearing saggy jeans, untied tennis shoes, t shirts with obscene images on it, and racks of fake gold teeth. Trust me, your boots and jeans would not have a negative effect!

LD