controlled round feed

[back40]

i recently picked up a ruger scout rifle and have a question for those experienced with the action. the rifle feeds fine from a magazine, and you can drop a loose round on top of an empty mag and it feeds fine. however, if the round slides forward into the chamber prior to moving the bolt forward, you cannot close the bolt against the chambered round.

i did some quick research online and found another with the same issue, who sent their rifle back to ruger and recieved a new rifle that worked fine and would close the bolt on a chambered round without a problem. others have stated that the you should indeed be able to close the bolt after chambering a single loose round.

so, i called ruger they picked it up on their dime, and i got it back today. the paperwork claimed that the extractor had been replaced. i ran some snap caps through it and i still can't close the bolt after chabering a loose round.

should a controlled round feed action function in the way i'm descrbing. should i be able to manually chamber a loose round and still be able to close the bolt?

 

[Uncle Grinch]

True control feed rifles are designed to feed from the magazine and not be fed direct into the chamber. This counters the purpose of control feed. Some manufacturers and gunsmith modify the extractor so it will slip over the rim of a chambered round. It's kind of iffy and is hard to do without experience. It may lead to extraction failures as the extractor needs a certain amout of pressure to maintain control of the rim.

If it was mine, I would only feed rounds from the magazine and accept it as it is designed.

 

[tahoe2]

Uncle Grinch got it! I only feed my CRF's from the mag, like they were intended!

 

[ATCDoktor]

My Ruger GSR's bolt will close on single rounds dropped into the chamber with no effort.

Have done it hundreds of times and have had no issues to date.

 

[back40]

atc- just to clarify, if you drop a round all the way in the chamber, as such with the barrel pointed down, you have no trouble closing the bolt? this is what baffels me. how can some be capable of this and others not?

 

[HankC]

All 3 of my Mauser small rings can do controlled feed or chamber feed. I have 3 large ring Mausers, two will do but the other would not do both. Compare the difference and noticed that the one would not do have much higher extractor spring force. Hit the back metal spring of the extractor with a rubber hammer to reduce the spring force on extractor, now it feed both ways well.

 

[j1]

I think that it has to do with the extracter jumping over the rim. You may have to push the bolt harder to do this.

 

[ATCDoktor]

atc- just to clarify, if you drop a round all the way in the chamber, as such with the barrel pointed down, you have no trouble closing the bolt?

Correct.

All my Ruger M77's and my 03A3 Springfield will chamber a round dropped into the chamber, muzzle pointed down, bolt gently closed.

My 30-06 built on a large ring Mauser 98 action will not.

how can some be capable of this and others not?

As was pointed out by Uncle Grinch in post #2 some manufacturers tune the controlled round extractor to chamber feed.

Think about it, how foolish would it be for Ruger to design a rifle with a detachable magazine (and controlled round feed) that could not be loaded by dropping a round directly into the chamber?

Lose or damage the magazine and your 800 dollar rifle is now turned into a club/boat paddle/fishing pole.

Several times I have gone the range and left my Ruger GSR's magazine sitting on my loading bench (I use it to adjust my Cartridge Overall Length) and haven't had a single problem over several hundred rounds of single loading rounds.

Even when I have the magazine with me I rarely use it. When shooting groups from a rifle rest I single load the rounds by just dropping round in the action and closing the bolt.

Never had a problem.

If your's will not, you need to send it back to them (again) and have them tune it to where it will.

 

[gpb]

Some Control Round Feed (CRF) rifles are purpose designed and built to be loaded single shot by by-passing the magazine. A case in point is the Model 1903 Springfield rifle. This includes the M1903-A1 and M1903-A3 and M1903-A4 variants.

The M1903 is a modified CRF Mauser design. The M1903 has a magazine cutoff that was designed to allow the cartridges in the magazine to be held in reserve while the soldier single loaded the rifle by-passing the magazine. The thinking by the military at the time was that this would reduce waste of ammunition.

The extractor on the M1903 design has a bevel on the front edge of the extractor and enough “spring” in the design to allow the extractor to ride over the rim of the cartridge and engage the extraction groove. Not all CRF rifle are designed this way and must be fed from the magazine. Also, many sporterized military Mausers were modified to allow single round feeding. In summary the capability of a CRF rifle to single feed while by-passing the magazine will vary by its design or modifications made to it.

 

[back40]

atc- thanks for the clarification. i had figured as much. i re-read the manual and it clearly states that"the rifle can be used as a single shot rifle in the absence of a magazine..."

looks like i'll be calling ruger again on tuesday.

 

[jmr40]

Despite the confusing name CRF's biggest advantage is in extraction and ejection. Not feeding. Picking up the round from the magazine is irrelevent when it comes to reliablity. A PF rifle will feed rounds just as reliably and do it from any position, including upside down. I could care less if the round coming out of the magazine does not snap under the extractor immediately.

The key advantages are these. With PF the extractor will not snap over the rim until the bolt is closed. If you cannot, or do not do this for some reason the chambered round cannot be gotten out of the chamber. With CRF, even if the extractor does not grap the rim immediately,you can still extract the round at any time even if you cannot, or do not close the bolt.

If you have a dirty rifle, dirty, or out of spec ammo the huge extractor will be far more likely to get a stuck case out of the chamber than will the tiny PF extractor.

Finally, a CRF ejector is foolproof and will always work. A PF ejector relies on a spring loaded plunger that could malfunction if the rifle is dirty.

A CRF rifles advantage over PF is a bit more reliable extraction and ejection under severe conditions. They both feed equally well under all conditions, and a PF will extract and eject just as well except under severe conditions.

As far as not being able to load a round directly into the chamber is concerned. I'm not aware of any modern rifle not designed to do this. It does not effect relibility in any way and the rifle should be able to do so. Even with older CRF rifles not desiged to do this shooters have been doing it for 100 years by simply pressing in on the middle of the extractor as they closed the bolt. This opens the claw a bit and allows it to slide over the rim. This was commonly done during both WW-1 and WW-2 to allow an extra round to be loaded in the gun.

 

[Uncle Grinch]

You may try an old trick to test if it's the extractor.

Drop a round in the chamber and as you close the bolt, apply pressure on the extractor with you other hand. This essentially reduces the pressure on the claw of the extractor and makes it easier for it to slip over the rim.

 

[back40]

i tried the method jmr40 mentioned (pressing the middle of the extractor wile closing the bolt) and you have to press hard, but it'll do the trick 50 percent of the time.

i also stopped by the shop where i bought it and we chambered a round in another scout off the shelf and the bolt closed with absolutely no problem.