Cops need to be more aggressive, expert says

[sacp81170a]

Is there a single cop on THR who would agree with this guy?
He's not talking about being aggressive. He's talking about being a rogue cop.

He's a rogue cop, no question.

Savelli, who now heads a security firm, said it is everyday cops, probation officers, prison guards and sheriff deputies that make up the real front in the war against terrorism.

So of course the best way to gather intelligence is to violate the rights of as many people as possible with sloppy police work and make everybody so mad that they won't call in any suspicious behavior. The guy is just dead wrong and arrogant to boot. The real front line in the war on terror is you, me, and everybody in the whole culture we're trying to protect.

Oh, and by the way, my department will come get you from across the state if your fines are over $1,000 and you don't have the cash to bond out from the arresting department. Under $1,000 and we may allow a release on OR, but it depends on if you've made our court clerk mad at you.

(Hint for those not in the CJ system. Do *not* PO the court clerk. They have an un-be-lievable amount of power over who goes to jail and who doesn't. Ours is a really nice, grandmotherly, white haired lady who will send you to jail in a heartbeat for FTA. The judge may sign the papers, but she's the one what types 'em up.)

 

[stevelyn]

He certainly isn't representitve of me or any cops I know.

I'm willing to bet that he is representitve of a significant few in the agency he used to work for.

I'm also willing to bet that he is the type that illegally obtained evidence on a regular basis, and that he had a lot of his cases rejected by the DA or they were lost outright in court proceedings due to his methods.

I really hope this publicity will be the death knell of his company and his reputation as a consultant.

 

[gunsmith]

Prosecuting minor crimes

Mr Savelli pointed out that minor crimes need to be prosecuted to lead to bigger crimes, in this point I agree.
The "broken window" theory put in place by guilianni and the NYPD, of arresting low level criminals when they did not have ID led to great bust.
They used to just kick you loose if you had no ID and you hopped on the subway without paying, and murderers would hop the subway knowing that a minor crime wouldn't even be an arrestable offense...when things changed NY crime rate went down and lots of real criminals were caught with the dumb traffic infraction type of crime.

Lots of low level stuff like not paying a 3$ cab fare or stealing a pack of ciggs are not prosecuted because miscreants know not to carry ID when doing that kind of crime.

A cabbie friend of mine, outraged by PD letting fare cheaters go got into big trouble for catching and fighting with a hooker who cheated him.

If cops would had been locking them up instead of letting them go because it's 3$ and they don't have ID he wouldn't have taken the law into his own hands because he could have faith that it would have been handled fairly.

A lot of old school NY cops are like Mr Savelli and are a credit to the community.
When I was 16 I was caught by a cop with some weed, instead of getting a bunch of charges, I was told to throw it down the sewer.
A kid of 12 was having sex with older guys for money in central park and got their butts kicked by some older brothers and the cops didn't really look to hard because they knew the score.
A child molester might make it to jail a little roughed up after trying to "escape"...Thats the way it used to be in NYC, sometimes it worked sometimes it didn't.

I think we and the press are giving Mr Savelli a raw deal here.

ymmv of course

 

[Car Knocker]

Mr Savelli pointed out that minor crimes need to be prosecuted to lead to bigger crimes, in this point I agree.

Hopefully Mr. Savelli's crimes that he committed on a daily basis will catch up to him and he, too, can be prosecuted.

 

[tellner]

Let's have him extraordinarly renditioned to Jordan or Egypt for evidence gathering.

 

[crazed_ss]

A lot of old school NY cops are like Mr Savelli and are a credit to the community.

Guess that depends on what community you're a part of.

 

[JR719]

I cannot believe this guy. As a LEO I can tell you a career would be over doing what he wants, even jail.
As far as searching a vehicle, unless the person is giving you that "something is not right" feeling, why search? When asking to search and the person says "no", hopefully a K9 is handy to give the vehicle a sniff. If not, let them go unless you have a LAWFUL REASON.
The laptop, seize it anyway???? Yea right! Sounds like a badge is going to be on the wrong side of a lawsuit and a nasty reprimand. The vast majority of street cops are following the laws and rules they have to work by, if not, hard to support a family without a job or in jail.
I think this guy needs to brush up on his search and seizure. It would be nice if the rules were a little more relaxed, but the defense attorneys would lose money.... we don't want that.
It is very easy to "monday morning quarterback" every situation. Some of these guys have either forgotten how police work is actually done, or don't know how it works in the first place.
Not many things, well, don't want to throw out profanity here.... Really light my fuse, but a retired cop or one that has not been on the street for many years implying working street cops are incompetant. I feel the urge to fire off a little "hate e-mail" to the idiot.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Uh, no. This guy is a credit to no one. He is NOT talking about prosecuting small stuff instead of letting it pass. He's talking about inventing small crimes to get probable cause to go fishing and hope you get lucky enough to catch big crimes. That's how a police state works.

A cabbie friend of mine, outraged by PD letting fare cheaters go got into big trouble for catching and fighting with a hooker who cheated him (out of a cab fare).

Fixed it for you.

 

[Crosshair]

"I stopped cars for the purpose of getting into the car, or finding a bad guy," he said. "You have to push the envelope."

Proper responce to a cop like this:

Cop: Can I take a look in your car.
Me: No.

Those simple two letters make things alot harder for them to snoop where they have no business being. If you have probable cause, then let me know and go ahead. Otherwise I'll take my ticket and be on my way. If they wana search my car for no reason, then they are gona have to come up with a reason that someone is actualy gona believe.

 

[Optical Serenity]

The article is bizarre and very suspect to boot.

However, I fully do agree with the concept of stronger and more aggressive enforcement. Forget what us cops can do, its the damn courts that need to be more aggressive and stronger.

We have our backbones, the judges / DA's don't...

 

[tellner]

OS, since you carry tin you probably know that we keep more people in prison longer than pretty much any other developed country. And you've probably heard of mandatory minimum sentences, "Three Strikes and You're Out" (the schmuck who came up with that one deserves to burn in Hell), and all the rest. DAs racking up the highest conviction rates they can so they can appear "tough on crime" and go into politics? That's not "dog bites man". It's "fish drinks water".

No, the problems don't have simplistic answers that will actually work. They require actual thought, attention to facts, and a willingness to give up comforting lies when reality demands.

 

[carebear]

Why would you say the article was bizarre or suspect?

Its content was pretty much verified by the public denunciations by local law enforcement present. It was thus hardly a misquote or fabrication.

Savelli apparently wouldn't need an empty coffee can for pc, an empty coffee cup would do.

 

[crazed_ss]

Proper responce to a cop like this:

Cop: Can I take a look in your car.
Me: No.

Then you get arrested and they search the car anyway. Just about anything can be used as probable cause.

 

[HankB]

I just had a thought . . .

You know, if I were a criminal defense attorney from Mr. Savelli's old haunts, I'd be going through all my records now of clients who were convicted on the basis of testimony from, or evidence gathered by, Mr. Savelli.

The man has admitted in a public forum that he violated the law regularly - that would seem to make his testimony VERY suspect.

IANAL so maybe some of the attorneys on this board can weigh in - do Mr. Savelli's public statements establish reasonable grounds for an appeal?

And if it can be established that Mr. Savelli did break the law under color of authority, would he and his department incur criminal and/or civil liability?

If he had a partner, could the partner be compelled to testify under oath in court (possibly with a grant of immunity) against Mr. Savelli?

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Is there a single cop on THR who would agree with this guy?

He's not talking about being aggressive. He's talking about being a rogue cop.

Don and others, a rogue cop? I wish he was seen as such by his peers and superiors as he apparently is a highly decorated cop and fairly well respected for his police work. Take a look at his list of credentials.

http://www.policeone.com/writers/columnists/LouSavelli/

If you aren't scared by now after reading the story from Colorado, any of us, then you should be after seeing the guy's credentials. Not only was this guy's influence as a cop, but now retired (self employed) as a consultant and speaker, several fiction and non fiction books to his name, plus writing for police rags.

The system has clearly rewarded the wrong kind of person. I would be willing to bet that either his claims are flat out lies about how he was some super cop who could break the laws at will, or he did break laws, violate rights, but knew it to be illegal and kept his mouth shut while he was a cop. Either way, he has no business providing education to other LEOs.

 

[Zero_DgZ]

Cops need to be more aggressive?

Cops need to be more aggressive?

Did I recount to you the tale wherein I was tackled and threatened by a DE state cop for having the audacity to carry a walking stick in public? I'm fairly sure I did. Repeatedly.

Did I recount to you the tale of New Castle County officer Milton who literally threatened to shoot me if he ever saw me playing airsoft, even on my own property?

Do we really need more guys like them?

 

[crazed_ss]

Wow.. some resume.. looks like the guy is a real life Alonzo Harris.

 

[Crosshair]

crazed_ss

Then you get arrested and they search the car anyway. Just about anything can be used as probable cause.

Yea, but at least they have to make up a reason when they plant the cocaine.

 

[Erebus]

Can a shiny copper coin on the floor of your car be "mistaken" for a cartridge?
Can a shiny silver coin partially under the seat of your car be "mistaken" as a part of a gun? The end of a window brush look like a barrel? PC is easy to come up with to search a car. Anything in there that is even partially obscured could be said to resemble a weapon. Could a receipt on the floor with a little dirt or sand on it appear to be MJ someone was trying to roll and dropped when the squad car lit you up?

When I was fresh out of college I got a good job and bought a brand new Corvette. Guess what I was to a few cops? A drug dealer. I got pulled over for anything and everything, and was asked if they could search EVERY time. After the 4th or 5th search I started refusing to allow them. How many searches does it take before you realize there is nothing to find? Well one great cop actually took the time to shoot the breeze with me about the car and how I came about deciding to buy it etc. I was in the driveway washing and waxing it all the time. He walked the neighborhoods instead of just driving by and staring. He spread the word around that I was cool and the locals left me alone after that. He never asked to search it or me. Used to see him frequently and talked to him all the time. Even 30 or so years my senior we were good friends. It's too bad he's now retired. He was the proverbial wise old beat cop. He would rather walk the neighborhoods than drive by. He knew everybody and everybody knew him. He would shoot hoop with you for a few minutes, whatever you were doing. And when he was looking for information he knew who to ask and knew if you had it before asking you. And you knew him so well you felt like dirt when you had info he needed to know and you didn't want to tell him. I don't remember a time when he didn't get the info he needed. You scratched his back he scratched yours. If you got in trouble he made sure you learned your lesson without ending up with a record. He looked out for the good kids. And who do you think we would tell if something bad was going to go down and it needed to be stopped?

This Savelli guy seems to be his polar opposite. I'll bet my buddy did allot more good than this guy did. He was not only a friendly face in the uniform but he was effective. He knew the kids in the neighborhoods so well he knew who he could just call Mom or Dad on and leave it at that. His arrest record may have not been the longest, but I bet he steered more lives in the right direction his way than any pushy "nail em all to the wall" thug type ever could.

Cops don't need to be more aggressive. They need to be more accessible and get to know the people and areas they serve. The people that live on those streets everyday are their best source of information. But do you expect any kind of help from them if they are afraid to get jacked up everytime they encounter you Mr Savelli?

 

[Phenom]

Cops need to be more aggressive my rear. They're already plenty aggressive and cocky to boot