Correcting sights on a 1860 .44

[Blowingsky]

I have a "Centaur" "1960 New Army" .44 Centennial from Belgium. Essentially about the same as a Uberti 1860 Old Army .44. At 21 feet it shoots very hight and to the left. I'd say, left = 3 inches and up = 4 inches. It doesn't seem to matter if I shoot 22 grains of fffg Goex or 35. I use a .454 Hornady ball but get the same results with a .457 ball. I also use a wonderwad but have also used corn grits. I can't see an out-of-alignment situation it the set of the hammer or the front blade but obviously something is off. Hell, this is only 21 feet.

Any advice?

 

[mykeal]

Duelist or two hand grip? Weaver or CAR stance?

With respect, since you don't see anything obviously wrong with the gun (and I agree it would be major if it was that far off at 21 feet), I'm going to suggest you look at your stance and grip. With a 22 gr load and a regular .454 (140 gr) roundball there will be minimal to no discernible recoil, and you may be anticipating some.

If you're shooting duelist, try a few rounds with a classic Weaver stance & grip. In addition, load only 2 chambers and spin the cylinder so you don't know when they will come into battery. If you're anticipating recoil it will become obvious on the empty chambers. (This does require that you dry fire the empty chambers, which is not a good thing for the nipples, but you should only have to do it once or twice so it shouldn't damage them very much)

During the above exercise, if you don't see an obvious recoil anticipation, repeat it paying particular attention to trigger management. You may be 'stabbing' at the trigger with a flat finger while at the same time squeezing the grip frame with the base of your thumb and first finger. Unusual, but that's how you'd pull the muzzle up and right, and it has happened.

 

[Oyeboten]

I know my various Cap & Ball Revolvers shoot 'high'...

I believe most were originally sighted for 75 Yard distance, and the reproductions merely followed this.

I just aim five or six inches lower than where I want the Bullet to go if shooting at Ten Yards say.

But, as mykeal advises, it is usually one's grip on the Revolver, and or manner of pulling the Trigger also, which would account for lateral shifts in printing.

If one's grasp is not right, right Handed people, tending to inadvertently pull the Pistol to the left...Left Handed people, to the Right.

If shooting one Handed, try and have the Web of your right hand, and, a line representing the center of the area from there to the Wrist, be all in a stright line with the long bone of your forearm...and have your Thumb relaxed...so the grasp is with the fingers and palm-heel, in a front to back way, and no side pressure being applied to the Stocks.

 

[Bluehawk]

why not put caps on on the unloaded chamber's nipples so as to not damage the nipples??

 

[arcticap]

It's not unreasonable to suppose that not every gun will have fixed sights that are perfectly regulated right from the factory.
And since your pistol is a Belgian Centuar, I'm figuring that you'd probably rather not permanently alter it by deepening its hammer notch or by installing a drift adjustable front sight.
I can only think of a few other options.
One is to learn by trial and error to very slightly cant the piece when you're aiming and firing to in effect alter the windage.
It's possible that this slight adjustment could be accomplished by canting the revolver just a few degrees to the right, i.e. - at about the 12:30 position instead of the 12:00 position.
By aiming that way the muzzle will be slightly offset which will create a tendency to slightly move it the desired amount to the right upon firing.
No one holds their muzzle perfectly still while aiming or while firing anyway since it's really a physical impossibility to accomplish that with any sort of absolute repeatability. The best that any shooter can hope to strive for is to keep their sights aligned to impact around the center of the target black when they're pulling the trigger.
Beside canting the gun which is not the ideal method, I can suggest finding a way to temporarily alter your front sight which I speculated about in post #4 of another thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=524516&highlight=front+sight

Or lastly, you could deepen the notch of a replacement hammer to see how that works without making any permanent changes to your original part that could end up devaluing your Belgian Centaur.

 

[Oyeboten]

why not put caps on on the unloaded chamber's nipples so as to not damage the nipples??

I came back to say the very same thing!

Yes...for the exercise - Load some...Cap all...

 

[OYE]

You might shoot off a rest and mark on the hammer with a felt tip pin where the notch needs to be to correct the windage and see if it's feasable to widen the notch out with needle files. The rest should take any of the operator variables out of the picture. I generally prefer to work on the windage first and height last. Luck .

 

[DrLaw]

+1 on Mykeals reply. Just had the same thing with a cat-ridge gun. Got a Ruger Bisley in .45LC. It was shooting for me way low and to the left no matter how I was holding it. Thing was that I was shooting rather stiff loads in it and was developing a flinch, despite my having been shooting for 38 years. It really got bad when a friend suggested a heavier bullet. He also had it loaded a tad hot. I like to call his loads atomic.
The fix for me was to use some light loads and lo and behold, the flinch subsided and the gun was shooting to point of aim. Seems I was anticipating the shot and pulling the trigger wrong, shifting the aim to the left and low.

No reason that it cannot be trigger pull doing it for you, too.

The Doc is out now.

 

[MCgunner]

The only way to really know what the GUN is doing is to bench it on sandbags.

All the colt clones I've ever had experience with shot high. The 75 yard zero thing would make sense. After all, for the horse mounted soldier, these guns were intended as primary arms.

My new Pietta 5.5" Navy shoots high. It's dead on windage, just shoots high. What I did is to take a dremel and cut out the hammer sight notch a bit, then hold the tip of the bead down to the bottom of the notch and put the target 6 o'clock over the top of the notch....if that makes sense. It's the same sight pic I have to use for the ROA, actually, shoots high, too, and doesn't have enough sight adjustment to correct for it. It works for me. The Navy shoots 4-5" at 25 yards and I can keep 'em in the area of the bull with that sight picture, now. If the gun were a bit more accurate, I might use the normal sight picture and try it at 75, but with 5" at 25, you're looking at 15 at 75. Better be a BIG target. LOL The ROA is accurate enough to try at 100. Guess I could load it up similar and try it at 75 to see. Might give me some insight into whether the 75 yard thing is true.

 

[mykeal]

If elevation was the only problem I'd agree that he needed to adjust the sights. But with both elevation and windage off as much as they are, well, technique is most likely the issue.

 

[Hellgate]

A dovetail front sight was pretty common on the Colt C&Bs but it depends if you want a shooter or a collector. I have resorted to bending a barrel on one of my cheapo brass framed Piettas and now it is POA=POI (I was lucky to get it right).
Shoot it from a sandbag rest so you know whether it is the gun or the shooter.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

I have a "Centaur" "1960 New Army" .44 Centennial from Belgium.

Howdy Blowingsky I'm a neighbor in Palmdale... used to have alot a fun in the Sunland Tujunga area.
On them sites ... if you'd be comfortable workin' on the hammer site by hand a jewlers or Swiss file would do the trick...shooting from a bench would help even more...I love them Belgian Centaures. Had two sold one will probly get another. I consider them closest to an original Colt in most every way but the markings...Another mod for any rev with a hammer sute is to shim the hammer at the hammer screw...one other alternative when all else fails is to cut a dove tail front site on them.
If ya wanna meet and try out yur 1860 on a bench I belong to the Desert Marksmen Club 10 miles towards yur place off Angeles Crest Highway the 2. I'd be glad to bring you there as it's just over the Mountains up Big Tujunga Cyn...
PM me if ya like will give you my home phone#.

Smokin_Gun