AZAndy
Member
Jim, I'll race ya! 
Curio and Relic
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john219
Member
How long has this taken you folks from the time you ordered the application to be sent to you?
What disadvantages are there to a C&R FFL?
-Am I going to have th BATFE showing up at my home to go through my stuff and inspect things? They do this with regular FFL holders, right?
Do I have to send them copies of the logs? Or do I just keep them?
-Will I still be able to do private transfers if I have this? This is legal in Indiana, where I live. Regular FFL holders are not allowed to do private transfers. This isn't something that I have done even once a year, but I may want to do so.
Any thing else I should worry about?
Will I be harassed in any way?
I've been interested in this, as I see a lot of guns online that I would like, but I think finding a FFL transferrer is a lot of hassle, and I don't know if I am really saving much after all those transfer expenses. I've never made a mail order / internet firearm purchase.
What disadvantages are there to a C&R FFL?
-Am I going to have th BATFE showing up at my home to go through my stuff and inspect things? They do this with regular FFL holders, right?
Do I have to send them copies of the logs? Or do I just keep them?
-Will I still be able to do private transfers if I have this? This is legal in Indiana, where I live. Regular FFL holders are not allowed to do private transfers. This isn't something that I have done even once a year, but I may want to do so.
Any thing else I should worry about?
Will I be harassed in any way?
I've been interested in this, as I see a lot of guns online that I would like, but I think finding a FFL transferrer is a lot of hassle, and I don't know if I am really saving much after all those transfer expenses. I've never made a mail order / internet firearm purchase.
CajunBass
Member
As I understand it, the ATF almost never bothers C&R holders. Frankly they have bigger fish to fry. In theory they can ask to see your books. They do not just show up at your door and demand to see them. They either call or write and ask to set up an appointment. Your place, their place, a neutral place. Now I don't know any of this first hand, it's just what I've read on this and other boards. Personally I figure I'll never have any direct contact with the ATF other than renewing my license.
Speaking of which. I recently moved, and had to update my license. Not having any idea how to go about it, I emailed the ATF. The next day I got a very nice email back from them, explaining the process, linking me to the correct form to download and explaining what parts didn't apply to me (the form covers more than one type FFL). I filled it out, dropped it in the mail, and in about two weeks I got my updated license back. No problem, no hassle.
I pesonally don't see any downside to having one. I figure the government already knows who I am and where I live.
Speaking of which. I recently moved, and had to update my license. Not having any idea how to go about it, I emailed the ATF. The next day I got a very nice email back from them, explaining the process, linking me to the correct form to download and explaining what parts didn't apply to me (the form covers more than one type FFL). I filled it out, dropped it in the mail, and in about two weeks I got my updated license back. No problem, no hassle.
I pesonally don't see any downside to having one. I figure the government already knows who I am and where I live.
No, the ATF is not going to show up at your door unannounced (or likely at all). While the ATF can do a "compliance inspection" on a C&R FFL holder, they don't usually bother to do so. The last time I heard of anyone with a C&R getting inspected by the ATF was a few years ago when the ATF did a whole bunch of C&R compliance inspections in the same year as part of a study to track how well C&R holders were complying with the law. I haven't heard of anyone being inspected since then.
If the ATF does notify you that they plan to do a "compliance inspection" you may choose to take your C&R boundbook and records and any C&R firearms to the local ATF and have the inspection done there instead of at your home.
You keep a copy of your bound book. You even just keep it if you decide not to renew your license. (Unlike a commercial/dealer FFL who has to send his bound book into the ATF when he surrenders his license).
What do you mean by private transfers? You can not use a C&R license to buy guns for the purpose of resale. You can still sell guns from your collection, even if you used your C&R to buy them, but you just need to be reasonable about it so the ATF doesn't go after you for "acting as a dealer with a C&R only license."
No. I've yet to hear of any C&R owners being harassed by the ATF. Even when they did do a bunch of C&R inspections a few years back, none of the C&R holders who wrote about it on-line described it as harassment.
john219
Member
I've had people that I know offer to buy guns of mine in the past, and I sold to them. This happened a few times in my life. It has been years since it has happened, and not even an average of one time a year. These were guns that were a few years old.
Do I have to do anything different other than write the gun into a log book? Would the person have to fill out one of those forms that I fill out at a gun store?
I may want to buy from a private person, and I can imagine that with a larger collection, more people may want to buy something from me. I just like to keep options open that I have now.
Gator
Member
If it is a C&R you must log it out of your bound book. No 4473 is required, but your State may have record keeping laws for private sales that still have to be followed (for example; in IL we have to keep a record of private transfers for ten years). If you buy a C&R in a private sale, it too must be entered in your bound book.
AirplaneDoc
Member
Just for clarification if I have a C&R
I want to purchase a H&K45 USP. I understand that the C&R does not apply to this purchase, and it has to go thru a regular dealer. Do I have to log this purchase into my book or only C&R (50+ years and on the list) firearms?
Thanks
I want to purchase a H&K45 USP. I understand that the C&R does not apply to this purchase, and it has to go thru a regular dealer. Do I have to log this purchase into my book or only C&R (50+ years and on the list) firearms?
Thanks
Bruce333
Member
Only C&R firearms need to go into your bound book.
AirplaneDoc
Member
Thanks Bruce, That is what I was thinking
there is a place on the ATF website where you can order a C&R packet... youll get a mailing with all of the forms needed including finger print cards... shows up in like 4 days thanks to the USPS... hell my tax payer dollars pay for em, so why not use em :-D
Bruce333
Member
EOD Guy
Member
AirplaneDoc said:
It's 50+ years old OR on the list. It doesn't have to be both.
Mojo-jo-jo
Member
When you get your C&R, go ahead and put a copy on file with all of the major importers/wholesalers, whether or not they currently have anything you are looking for. This will put you on their catalog mailing list, and you will get their (usually) monthly "dealer" catalog of all kinds of goodies to buy! The catalog will also show their wholesale prices on their non-C&R stuff, so you can get some "inside" bargaining info for non-C&R purchases as well.
It also makes it easier to order if your copy is already on file. With some wholesalers you can even order on line. It's nice to be able to order online and have the UPS guy show up 2-5 days later with your new firearm!
The BATFE changed their rules a couple of years ago, and now faxed/emailed copies of the license are valid. However, some of the dealers still require a signed paper copy. Keep that in mind.
It also makes it easier to order if your copy is already on file. With some wholesalers you can even order on line. It's nice to be able to order online and have the UPS guy show up 2-5 days later with your new firearm!
The BATFE changed their rules a couple of years ago, and now faxed/emailed copies of the license are valid. However, some of the dealers still require a signed paper copy. Keep that in mind.
I figure it's better to resurrect this thread than start a new one, given all of the relevant information already contained therein...
Moreover, my apologies if this has been answered or covered somewhere before.
Anyhow, I've decided to apply for a C&R license. Before I send the forms in, however, I do have one question that I wasn't able to answer to my satisfaction by searching through this forum or others:
I'm moving in four months. Thus, at present, I don't have a truly permanent address (the impending move means that my current address is technically temporary). However, I plan to make most or all of my C&R purchases during this four month period, so the address I provide will be valid for that duration. Obviously enough, I would have to update (amend) my license to reflect my new address if I want to continue making C&R purchases after moving.
That's where the question comes in:
Must I live at (and store) my C&R eligible collection at the address specified on any current license, or is that address only necessary (at least as long as my contact info e.g. phone remains valid) for ordering/purchasing purposes? Note: I will still legally retain this address for at least a year after my move, though I myself will NOT be physically present.
I only ask because there is a strong possibility that I will change addresses again after about about a year or so following this upcoming move and it is unlikely that I will make a C&R related firearm purchases during that time period. Otherwise I would simply amend it to avoid any complications - but amending it twice would prove bothersome (though I will do it if necessary).
Moreover, my apologies if this has been answered or covered somewhere before.
Anyhow, I've decided to apply for a C&R license. Before I send the forms in, however, I do have one question that I wasn't able to answer to my satisfaction by searching through this forum or others:
I'm moving in four months. Thus, at present, I don't have a truly permanent address (the impending move means that my current address is technically temporary). However, I plan to make most or all of my C&R purchases during this four month period, so the address I provide will be valid for that duration. Obviously enough, I would have to update (amend) my license to reflect my new address if I want to continue making C&R purchases after moving.
That's where the question comes in:
Must I live at (and store) my C&R eligible collection at the address specified on any current license, or is that address only necessary (at least as long as my contact info e.g. phone remains valid) for ordering/purchasing purposes? Note: I will still legally retain this address for at least a year after my move, though I myself will NOT be physically present.
I only ask because there is a strong possibility that I will change addresses again after about about a year or so following this upcoming move and it is unlikely that I will make a C&R related firearm purchases during that time period. Otherwise I would simply amend it to avoid any complications - but amending it twice would prove bothersome (though I will do it if necessary).
George C Morrison
member
You do not have to live at the same address your purchases are stored.
Just notify the ATF each time you move.No mail will be forwarded as per ATF regulations.
This will be stated on your license.They require a notification of 30 days before each premises change.
Suppose I take my collection (either in whole or in part) with me when I move? Most of the C&R firearms I intend to purchase with the license will be used as shooters, after all.
I'm just concerned about mobility with a C&R license, as my current career position places me in a situation where I'm moving around frequently (I've already moved three times in five years). That isn't an issue with firearms purchased through a dealer. It seems like a great way to save some money and a great deal of hassle (I hate dealing with internet transfers, because I frequently end up living in areas with dealers who fleece for transfers and I'm seldom around long enough to build a working relationship with any of them), but if I'm constantly contacting the ATF and amending my license while I possess it, it might not be worth the trouble.
George C Morrison
member
There is no problem with that.I believe you are overly worrying about potential moves.
There is going to have be some leeway with a license holder making sudden, needed career moves.
If you have any questions in the future when your moves come up, you can always call the Fed Licensing Center at 1-866-662-2750 in Atlanta.
The C & R is well worth having.
Once you get it, I think you'll want to keep it.
rritter
Member
The address on the C&R license mainly defines where any purchases will be shipped to. You'll be sending a copy of the license to the seller, and they will probably balk at shipping to any other address. You don't have to keep the guns at that address once you've bought it. Just notify the BATFE before you move, and send the updated licenses (once you have them) to any sellers you use regularly.
Mojo-jo-jo
Member
Moving with a C&R is no problem--I have done so twice. You simply file a form and the ATF will send you a new license with the new address. Quick and painless.
Ha! My father was a high end collector at one time, while my mother is and apparently always has been vehemently anti-gun. I suspect he ultimately liquidated his collection at her behest.
In any case, when I finally revealed to my mother that I owned firearms of my own, she went into a fit of hysteria and began equating me with a terrorist or criminal, and then demanded proof that I possess a "firearms license." Apparently she thinks we're still in Germany, because there is no requirement for a firearms license or even local registration in Florida.
This morning, I sent her a scan of my C&R application before it went out. Since the 7CR form has the words "Federal Firearms License" displayed prominently in bold at the top, she was satisfied that I was "doing things right." If only she knew that I acquired it specifically so that I could buy MORE guns at a discount without the need for a background check or dealer transfer.
04JRB
Member
I order a lot of reloading componants and gear from midway and mid south, what kind of discounts are available to a C&R holder?
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