"I never drove in a place where I thought I would need a spare tire. Good thing too, cuz I'd end up on a list of people who had spare tires" While paraphrasing, thats essentially what I read in post #23. I'd bet the vast majority of people who have used their ccw never planned on doing so the day they were forced to. "Bad things don't happen here" is becoming less and less of an excuse, as crime can happen anywhere to anyone...rural or city, poor neighborhoods or rich, crime doesn't discriminate.
Department of Homeland Security Keeping a List of CCW Holders
- Thread starter Jeff White
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Archiving The Information?? All of it? 
Well yes! You can all rest assured that massive data collection is going on at all times. Petraeus said it, the military is no longer the place to be at, where the power is at is in the intelligence services... and he moved! With modern information technology organized, indexed storage is essentially of infinite capacity. With more of our lives online than ever before, data collection is a breeze. Not just printed data, but ALL media. How will they ever organize all that raw data into something coherent? I don't know... but they have all of it on record and you can bet that if an interest is taken in you extensive dossiers will be hashed out of every thing they can find that is related to your "footprint", physical and virtual.
All of this is an attempt to categorize people into risk groups. Risk... as in RISK of being beyond their ability to impose on you. Policing the thoughts of 300 million + is a daunting task... you need to be able to put people into groups to make it more manageable. Obviously, getting lists of CCW holders, being KNOWN to have weapons, are a way to prioritize surveillance resources. If you are a person attempting to retain absolute power over a population, would you spend more time listening in on people involved in motor sports or people involved in improving high velocity projectile group sizes?
One of the things that highlights a police state... the generalized collection of personal, seemingly "private" information on the population. Unfortunately, it seems more and more that the threshold for becoming a "person of interest" is being lowered to encompass anyone that MAY at some point be in disagreement with the Federal Government's wishes, and specially those that have the means to do something about it.
Well yes! You can all rest assured that massive data collection is going on at all times. Petraeus said it, the military is no longer the place to be at, where the power is at is in the intelligence services... and he moved! With modern information technology organized, indexed storage is essentially of infinite capacity. With more of our lives online than ever before, data collection is a breeze. Not just printed data, but ALL media. How will they ever organize all that raw data into something coherent? I don't know... but they have all of it on record and you can bet that if an interest is taken in you extensive dossiers will be hashed out of every thing they can find that is related to your "footprint", physical and virtual.
All of this is an attempt to categorize people into risk groups. Risk... as in RISK of being beyond their ability to impose on you. Policing the thoughts of 300 million + is a daunting task... you need to be able to put people into groups to make it more manageable. Obviously, getting lists of CCW holders, being KNOWN to have weapons, are a way to prioritize surveillance resources. If you are a person attempting to retain absolute power over a population, would you spend more time listening in on people involved in motor sports or people involved in improving high velocity projectile group sizes?
One of the things that highlights a police state... the generalized collection of personal, seemingly "private" information on the population. Unfortunately, it seems more and more that the threshold for becoming a "person of interest" is being lowered to encompass anyone that MAY at some point be in disagreement with the Federal Government's wishes, and specially those that have the means to do something about it.
I disagree with .fed being able to make intelligent use of the massive data. That is the very reason that .fed militarized local law enforcement. All of the data is there at the centralized location, and accessible by any local DHS office. I see no difference whatsoever, between what Hitler pulled off, and what is being pulled off right now in the former USA. Big brother has gone full-blown paranoid, and Uncle Sam has been outed has Uncle Pervie.
We still have not, or I have not yet, heard much about this new intelligence building (something like 500,000 square feet) that was being constructed in where was it, Nevada?! I don't recall. That story seemed to dry-up.
That more and more information is being "shared" is no shock to me. In fact, I suspect that it is the mere tip of an ugly iceberg. Why did the FBI need the screen names of thousands of Apple users? There is so much stupid going on that I fear Amerika will never again become intelligent. And .gov intelligence should never be confused with possessing and exercising "intelligence".
We still have not, or I have not yet, heard much about this new intelligence building (something like 500,000 square feet) that was being constructed in where was it, Nevada?! I don't recall. That story seemed to dry-up.
That more and more information is being "shared" is no shock to me. In fact, I suspect that it is the mere tip of an ugly iceberg. Why did the FBI need the screen names of thousands of Apple users? There is so much stupid going on that I fear Amerika will never again become intelligent. And .gov intelligence should never be confused with possessing and exercising "intelligence".
huntsman
Member
+1
the militarization has filtered down to the local LEO thanks to .gov and I find that the most disturbing.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Arbo, I...I really don't know where to start.
Let's start with the spirit of 2A. "The right of the people...to keep and bear arms...shall not be infringed."
Let that sink in for a minute.
"Keep and Bear" meaning to own and carry. Of course, as with anything else, it boils down to a matter of choice...a concept that you seem to be struggling with.
Who are you...speaking generically, of course...to try and determine what someone else chooses to do or attach a negative label to it? And who are you...again generically...to ridicule my choice or anyone else's? It costs you nothing, and it has no effect on the quality of your life whatsoever.
Outside of law enforcement, there are few people who have a real or defined need to carry a gun, but "need" has nothing to do with the question. You state that you don't feel the need. You have your own personal reasons, and we respect that. Your choice.
But it's not just about you and where you live. Not everybody has the good fortune to reside in such secure surroundings.
We carry one because:
A. We can
B. Because trouble doesn't phone ahead for an appointment.
C. Because it's better to have and not need than vice-versa.
A wise old gunman once told me that a pistol is like an ambulance. "You don't need one often, but when you do, you need it badly and you need it immediately."
You are off the mark in all of your comments. I have no problem with CC. A permit shouldn't be needed and you should be able to do it in any state you want and cross borders without issue. I merely stated I do not feel the need to, and part of that is due to the reality that government is keeping a list... i don't feel the need to 'stand out' considering the direction we are headed. I do not live in a big city, and the vast majority of people out here are gun owners, and a good number of them carry, so in general I do not feel the need. If I felt the need, it's an open carry state, and you can carry in your car, so I think I'd be covered at times I felt I need to be covered.
The issue is people that read my statement and went on the 'you are safe nowhere' rant. Yeah, crap can happen anywhere... just as someone that is carrying can be shot dead before they even have time to think to go for their gun... No need for those that feel the need to carry 110% of the time to push it on others.
While CC is a good thing and can save lives and prevent or reduce crime, the overwhelming majority of people will make it through their lives just fine without it.
X-Rap
Member
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- 6,657
If it hasn't happened yet we are very close to the time in which each of us will have a file into which all our data will go and sit quietly until someone needs it. That includes banking, memberships, purchases, licenses/permits, internet, phone/text messages you name it.
I doubt that there is a force in place yet that could/would be able to act on it in enough secrecy to gather us all up into cattle cars but we may well be heading in that direction.
I just think it is a little nieve for us to not think that there is a massive amount of personal info being collected and there is really not much that we can do about it.
I doubt that there is a force in place yet that could/would be able to act on it in enough secrecy to gather us all up into cattle cars but we may well be heading in that direction.
I just think it is a little nieve for us to not think that there is a massive amount of personal info being collected and there is really not much that we can do about it.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Really? I don't think so. It was the snark that got my attention.
To wit:
Whenever that enters the discussion, I know that I'm about be insulted for my choices/beliefs, or I'm about to hear a lecture on what I need and don't need.
Well...you really aren't if you think about it...not even in your own home, and "safe, low-crime" areas are no guarantee of security. In fact, the more isolated you are, the greater the risk of a successful home invasion. Not only are your cries for help less likely to be heard, the response time for law enforcement can be up to an hour. Not long ago, a local elderly country gentleman was forced into his house and murdered...and his wife attacked and left for dead...in broad daylight while he was raking leaves. The killer stopped to ask for directions. Maybe a small revolver on his belt would have thwarted that little party. We'll never know.
Sure. The gun on your belt isn't a magic talisman, and there are no guarantees. There are only ways to stack the deck in your favor, and lethal attacks don't always come by way of 2-legged animals. I live way out in the sticks. Half the time, I don't even bother to lock my doors at night. I've seen Coyotes near my property. I've seen Red Wolf packs within 5 statute miles of my home, as well as the errant dog that wanders up for a look-see. Most are friendly. Some aren't. I carry a gun on me whenever I'm out and about on my property. Trouble doesn't make an appointment. The course of your life can turn on a dime.
Do you keep a fire extinguisher in your kitchen? An inflated spare tire in your vehicle? Yes? No? Low-risk is no reason to be unprepared, nor is it an excuse.
And the 'snark' was the smart ass comments that came when I said I live somewhere that I do not feel the need to have a CCW. Perhaps you missed that part, or perhaps you simply agree with THAT snark thus didn't see it as 'snark'.
Or perhaps it's just a desire to argue for the sake of arguing. I don't begrudge those that feel the need (and desire to end up on governmental watch lists as the first that will be visited) to CC... they don't need to begrudge the fact that I do not feel the need. When they do, they are no better than bible thumpers shoving their religious beliefs down the throats of others, and they are no different than those on the left that work to pass legislation that controls how we live and what we can and can not do.
Liberty, live and let live, that's what the founding principles are about, and it appears that often even those that claim to be 'all about that' forget it. I will call out anyone that forgets it, or goes against it, no matter what 'side' they are on.
I love all of .fed's pragmatic-sounding talk about national security, while the borders stand wide-open.
As I said to my former graduate students, it makes as much sense to me as buying shotguns and pitbulls claiming that you need security, then moving to the worst part of town, knocking down your property's fence and removing your house's doors. It seems to me that if .fed really were concerned about security, we would have had a closed border by now. But wait, if we leave it open, we can claim a need for security, use drones and spy tactics, and see what everyone is doing.
I used to think that politicians and officials who supported such tactics and laws were just uninformed, and well-intentioned. Not any longer. I see through the veil, to the ugly that lies below. It has nothing to do with actual security, and everything to do with illegitimately ceasing control over an otherwise free nation. Now a massive spy center, drones, machinegun-armed LEOs in New York, perverts at the TSA fondling men, women and children. Now, "intelligence" can be stored on people for 5 years, no longer just 6 months?! What's next? Tattoos of 666 on our foreheads?! A national firearms registry?
Hell, I didn't see this much abuse of power when I lived under a military dictatorship in Chile back in the early 80s. Like I said earlier, I suspect we don't know the half-of-it! What we see and hear is the mere tip-of-the-iceberg. Is any of it legitimately needed? Or is it all concocted? I have my own answer, and I will never be convinced to the contrary. My own solution is simplistic: from here to the end of my natural life, I will cast a vote straight Libertarian. I refuse to believe any more lies.
In closing, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. The Great Oz is speaking.
Geno
As I said to my former graduate students, it makes as much sense to me as buying shotguns and pitbulls claiming that you need security, then moving to the worst part of town, knocking down your property's fence and removing your house's doors. It seems to me that if .fed really were concerned about security, we would have had a closed border by now. But wait, if we leave it open, we can claim a need for security, use drones and spy tactics, and see what everyone is doing.
I used to think that politicians and officials who supported such tactics and laws were just uninformed, and well-intentioned. Not any longer. I see through the veil, to the ugly that lies below. It has nothing to do with actual security, and everything to do with illegitimately ceasing control over an otherwise free nation. Now a massive spy center, drones, machinegun-armed LEOs in New York, perverts at the TSA fondling men, women and children. Now, "intelligence" can be stored on people for 5 years, no longer just 6 months?! What's next? Tattoos of 666 on our foreheads?! A national firearms registry?
Hell, I didn't see this much abuse of power when I lived under a military dictatorship in Chile back in the early 80s. Like I said earlier, I suspect we don't know the half-of-it! What we see and hear is the mere tip-of-the-iceberg. Is any of it legitimately needed? Or is it all concocted? I have my own answer, and I will never be convinced to the contrary. My own solution is simplistic: from here to the end of my natural life, I will cast a vote straight Libertarian. I refuse to believe any more lies.
In closing, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. The Great Oz is speaking.
Geno
tomrkba
Member
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- 2,370
Many states have less than 1,000,000 issued permits. So, assuming 50 million permits ever issued (with many fewer currently active), the software and hardware requirements are not that big of a deal. Add some EMC storage to a five node Oracle RAC and a few front end web servers behind a load balancer and you're done. Figure maybe $600,000 in gear plus DBA and developer time. Double that if they build out another site for high availability. I'd budget a few million to cover the "goobermint" contractor waste and add five years All this could be setup in three months or less at my company. The dev time would take the longest.
All this could be setup in three months or less at my company. The dev time would take the longest.
X-Rap
Member
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- Sep 23, 2006
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Think of the advances in surveilance, and defensive/offensive measures that have been made in the last dozen or so years of war and how they have been implemented for the good of our troops. I am thankful for them all and what they have done for those important to me in harms way but am very fearful that they have fallen into the hands of those who may wish to turn them on their own countrymen.
The Patriot act and all the other infringements that we allowed are coming back to bite us in the butt, anyone seen the latest on the TSA and what some of them are claiming?
The Patriot act and all the other infringements that we allowed are coming back to bite us in the butt, anyone seen the latest on the TSA and what some of them are claiming?
breakingcontact
Member
So this same group is buying 1.6 billion rounds and we aren't supposed to be concerned right?
huntsman
Member
^ they must need a lot of range work
dirtengineer
Member
I have been pulled over once since living in Alaska. I notified, the gun stayed on my hip. Would have been really hard for them to archive the serial number.
I didn't even get a ticket..
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