Frame wear/damage from guide rod

[roadrider18]

Tuner (and others)

Just a tad bit east of you outside the capitol city. My porch is still intact and all my dogs are out chasing critters!

Anyway, I have a Colt Series 70 (70Bxxxxx) that I am getting ready to overhaul.

About 1000 rounds ago, I was given an early Dywer "Gripper" short guide rod to use. We've all read the threads about the merits of this rod, but, I did notice improved groups. BUT, I also altered my grip and stance some, so I don't know if it was the arrow or the indian.

During, my last cleaning I noticed a circular groove being worn into the frame on the vertical portion just forward of where the slide grooves begin.

It would seem that during the firing cycle, the guide rod face is being slammed or being pushed back into the frame under great pressure causing the indention. After referring to Kuhnausen's article in the "American Rifleman" (Aug 1999) 'How Does It Work' the guide rod appears never be out of contact with the frame. So I am curious how this indention is being formed? Obviously, the guide rod is made of more dense material than the forged frame. But, I've never seen this and nor do any of my other 1911's (Colt and SA (all prior to 1981)) show this wear. they all have short GI guide rods.

The rear face of the the Dywer guide rod fit perfectly into this groove.

I have been shooting a 18.5# Wolff, 230gr ball at 825fps. with a buffer.

My million dollar question?

Should I be concerned? Should I file the are flat?

I am going back to the GI guide rod during the rebuild with a ISMI CS spring of either 16 or 18 depending on which reload I'm shooting.

Thanks for any help and advice.

 

[HSMITH]

Ditch the gripper. If there is a raised ridge around the mark stone it out, but JUST take the ridge off. These things cause a lot more problems than they fix.

 

[roadrider18]

Definitely a ridge, can't mic it but I'd guess it's between 1/32 and 1/64 of an inch. Very easy to feel and see.

I thought about lightly stone'ing off the ridges but when I get into areas I'm not sure of I seek advice.

Looking at Mr. Browning spec's, I did not see a critical measurement coming off this vertical surface. Is that a correct assumption? But, as always, I'm concerned with removing material from a critical surface, such as this one, that obviously takes a lot of stress during the slide cycling.

THANKS.

 

[HSMITH]

You can stone the ridge off with no worries. Even 40 or 50 thousandths difference in this surface depth to the slide stop pin isn't going to matter. The important thing is to stop the damage before it gets any worse. A normal guide rod head will take care of the rest during the next 50K+ rounds fired from this gun.

 

[roadrider18]

What about going with Larry Vickers idea...no guide rod at all?

 

[Jim K]

I have not used that kind of guide rod, and it may well have some kind of ridge that causes undue frame wear. But the guide rod is intended to fit against the frame. When the slide comes back, it hits the front of the guide rod "pad", and the rear of the guide rod hits the frame. Normally, the frame peening does not become excessive or cause any problem.

Some folks worry a lot about it, though, and install buffers and other magic devices to stop the peening. The problem is that the gun is designed so the slide bounces off the metal to metal contact, regaining part of the energy it imparted to the frame. That ensures that the slide moves forward fast enough to properly feed the next round. If that rebound does not take place due to a buffer, feeding problems almost always result.

As to not using any guide rod, try it. You will end up with a mauled receiver and a kinked up spring.

Jim