Glock fans, can I ask for some help?

[Trashyshoots]

Im looking at potentially building a glock for steel competitions and nightstand duties. (Hopefully never gets called into service for the latter)

They're friendly, unsanctioned matches, basically "run what ya brung" but would like to possibly do some actual matches with proper rules and classes.

So my question is, should I buy a new glock and modify it and have replacement stock parts or would it be a better idea to build off an 80% kit and just buy the parts I need? Which one would be more economical?

When I talked to my coworkers that are glock enthusiasts I told them it would be a simple build. Red dot, light, light trigger and threaded barrel for a muzzle brake. (Im a huge fan of those) they laughed at me and told me "thats damn near the whole gun, just build off an 80%"

So, in your opinion, should I build off an 80% or modify? I dont mind having extra parts for my parts bin, but im not super familiar with glock parts pricing.

I would like it to be a glock, all my friends and family have them and theyre all very happy with theirs, plus being able to share mags in a pinch is solid.

If I dont do a glock I might just build a nasty 1911 because Ive never felt a glock trigger I can stand. Who knows my ideas change daily....

So yeah, buy new and modify or 80% and build off that? Or just say to hell with a glock and run a 1911?

 

[TonyAngel]

I used to shoot a Glock in competition. Steel, USPSA and whatever other trouble I could get into. I'm sure that friends and family are telling you to go with an 80% build because it's "easy." Did you ask them what sorts of problems they're having? They'll probably tell you that "it runs great, but..." I was helping a guy out at the range this past weekend with his 80% build. He was telling his girlfriend to go get the lube out of the truck because his gun wouldn't run right unless it was wet. I've also seen problems with the locking block moving around.

Honestly, if you were to build one and you have a machine shop and can actually do a good job of putting it together, it will probably run right. The problem is that a Glock is a Glock. They are made a certain way within certain tolerances. Everything on the market for Glocks are made to be compatible with Glocks. Then there are the kits which attempt to be better than a "real" Glock. And that is where the problems can start, because if you are out of spec in any way, there's no guarantee that all of those accessories made for Glocks will work with what you built. Or, they may work, but not the way you hoped.

My suggestion is to get yourself either a Glock 34 or 35. Get a model that is optics ready. Buy it and shoot it. If you don't like the trigger or can't get used to it, get in touch with Johnny Glock through his website. That guy knows Glock triggers. I did my own trigger and gained all of the understanding of the Glock trigger watching his educational videos on youtube. My trigger is now so smooth and single action like that I actually run a heavier than stock striker spring. If you know that you're gonna want a comp, maybe get into a G17 or G22. The G34 or G35 can get mighty long with a comp on the front.

After the above, figure out what optic you want to run and slap it on. If you go with the G34, you may not even need a comp. It shoots like a pussy cat as it is. If you decide that you still want a comp, get a threaded barrel and screw one on. You can get very competitive with a Glock against the 1911s. I was.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I second the buy a whole Glock method.

I can appreciate the 80 builds but I like to change one thing at a time when I start modifying things. It makes it easier to tell what is wrong if things go south.

Do you have a Glock now?

If so, use that for the informal matches first and then decide where to go from there.

If not, use what you have for a bit and then, once again, decide from there.

I also agree with starting with a 17 or 22. 22s are plentiful right now from so many recent LE trade ins.

If it were me, I would shop around for a Gen 3. There is more aftermarket support for these right now.....and I just like them better. That is entirely personal preference though.

 

[Zerodefect]

Get a 35. Do some trigger work, Warren sights, Dawson Magwell, Taylor mag extensions.

Skip the compensator and barrel, for now. That's a whole different world. I'd go CZ or 2011 if I was surely going the compensator optic route. The Cz Czechmate is $3100 and will run fine right out of the box. You'll need to research what spring setups to use for your ammo choice.

 

[Trashyshoots]

Dont have a glock atm, im running a volquartsen scorpion at steel matches now constantly getting ribbed for it only being a 22.

 

[Hartkopf]

x4 on starting with a good, known baseline.

 

[Buzznrose]

I’m a Glock Guy, but there are a lot of other great choices out there like Canik, Walther, Springfield Armory, S&W CORE, et al that may work as well.

That said, I agree with Tony A and Earl....don’t build it, buy it.

My input is that if you are dead set on a compensator and a Red Dot, get a G19 or G45. The Shorter slide will offset the additional length of a comp, and with the RD, you don’t need the extra sight radius advantage of the longer barrel.

Stay safe,

 

[ATLDave]

I agree that it's better to start with a functioning firearm and change parts than to build from the ground up where you're talking about a starting point of ~$500. It's not like Glocks are super pricey. And 80% means that 20% of it is foul-up-able by you.

 

[ATLDave]

They're friendly, unsanctioned matches, basically "run what ya brung" but would like to possibly do some actual matches with proper rules and classes.

On the potential competition angle, note that the compensator (and weapon light, if left attached) would put you into Open division in USPSA (and Steel Challenge, which is owned by USPSA), and would exclude the gun outright from some other "sanctioned" (formal rule set) matches. I don't think IDPA allows compensators in any division (but I'm a USPSA guy, not an IDPA guy, so I'd defer to the guys in fishing vests). Just something to be aware of.

Also, just a small terminology/usage note: For whatever reason, brakes on pistols are almost invariably called "compensators" rather than "brakes." Why? IDK (maybe because pistol comps are generally solely designed to keep the gun flat, rather than reducing rearward recoil - you don't want gasses jetting backwards on something as close to your hand and face as a pistol). I don't think it really matters, but among pistol people (and especially the competition guys) nobody calls them "brakes." I don't necessarily think you'd be wrong to call it a "brake," and people will probably know what you're talking about, but you'll definitely be talking like a non-native speaker in that crowd.

 

[Demi-human]

I'm sure that friends and family are telling you to go with an 80% build because it's "easy." Did you ask them what sorts of problems they're having? They'll probably tell you that "it runs great, but..." I was helping a guy out at the range this past weekend with his 80% build. He was telling his girlfriend to go get the lube out of the truck because his gun wouldn't run right unless it was wet. I've also seen problems with the locking block moving around.

Honestly, if you were to build one and you have a machine shop and can actually do a good job of putting it together, it will probably run right. The problem is that a Glock is a Glock. They are made a certain way within certain tolerances. Everything on the market for Glocks are made to be compatible with Glocks. Then there are the kits which attempt to be better than a "real" Glock. And that is where the problems can start, because if you are out of spec in any way, there's no guarantee that all of those accessories made for Glocks will work with what you built. Or, they may work, but not the way you hoped.

For a second I thought you were talking about 1911s...

 

[Jim Watson]

A Glock with slide mounted red dot sight but no muzzle attachment would put you in USPSA/SCSA/IDPA Optic Division.
I recommend buying a factory Glock with factory optic cut. As my gunsmith says, if the factory will do it LET the factory do it.
Besides the RDS I would limit modifications to trigger work and a single spring setup. Why a single spring? So you can match the recoil spring to your ammo and grip and have a "flat shooting" gun.

I further recommend a dedicated gun for the nightstand with little or no modification. Police trade-ins are cheap; just clamp on a searchlight.

Me? I usually shoot Steel Challenge with a .22; occasionally an iron sight 1911oid.

 

[TonyAngel]

You know, now that a Canik has been mentioned, I gotta say...I was at the range last week and this lady pulls out her limited gun and it's a Canik. I asked if I could run a mag. She was so proud of her pistol that she even gave me the ammo for it. Never saw one up close before. Never held one before, never shot one before. I took a couple of dry fires, popped two off to get a feel, then took a stance and a good grip and proceeded to empty the mag into the head of a silhouette at 7 yards in about 5 seconds. I haven't shot a handgun that naturally shootable since my first experience with a Sig P220 in .45. Funny thing was, I hated the mushy trigger. I guess it didn't matter. Of course, the down side to the Canik is that there is very little after market support. If you buy one, that's pretty much what you'll be shooting.

As for a CZ or 1911 race rig, that will cost your a few thousand for the gun alone. With a Glock, you'll be up and running for little over a thousand, plus the RDS for the gun. I think Glocks are great. They're kinda like showing up at an autocross with a VW Bug with a 914 motor in it. People will look at you funny until you beat their butts.

 

[WestKentucky]

Look at the cost of a MOS Glock and a polymer80 or similar build with a slide that is already set up for optics. Glock seems to think a lot of their pistols that are sold optic ready and I suspect that the build will be cheaper and more custom tuned to what you want, however a custom built gun may not fit the rules for a sanctioned event like IDPA or may force you into a certain class where the competitors have much more advanced pistols simply because of one or two things added to your gun.

My suggestion, buy a police trade-in 40sw and build another slide for it. That gives you a cheap platform to work from, and if you simply swap uppers then you can do a lot of different stuff. Simple parts swaps are nice too, like a removeable mag well or extended mag release. Can be swapped out quickly if you want to run the same gun in different classes where those features are or are not allowed.

And avoid large frame glocks if you plan to build. They are stupid expensive and parts are not readily available.

 

[ATLDave]

My suggestion, buy a police trade-in 40sw and build another slide for it. That gives you a cheap platform to work from, and if you simply swap uppers then you can do a lot of different stuff. Simple parts swaps are nice too, like a removeable mag well or extended mag release. Can be swapped out quickly if you want to run the same gun in different classes where those features are or are not allowed.

You have to be careful that slide-swaps or caliber-change-barrel-swaps are not among the prohibited modifications, though.

 

[crestoncowboy]

My suggestion, buy a police trade-in 40sw and build another slide for it.

That's what I'd do. Under 300 bucks for a like new working gun. I've taken advantage of a few myself. Spare mags for under 10 bucks (and I've used .40 mags in 9mm guns plenty for range use. No issues) . Then buy a 9mm threaded barrel if you must. (I prefer KKM but lone wolf and others are plenty available.) Forgetting the red dot would make the plan much easier though (cheaper at least). The milled slides are 200 bucks and idk about their reliability. No experience there. You can also have yours milled.

 

[TonyAngel]

You have to be careful that slide-swaps or caliber-change-barrel-swaps are not among the prohibited modifications, though.

Yep, that's what's nice about the G34. It's just about race ready right out of the box. It's gonna have extended controls and the 3.5lb connector. Just about anything you do to it will be a matter of preference and not necessarily because it makes you go faster.

 

[herrwalther]

What sort of tools and experience do you have? 80% build kits can be done with hand tools but having a drill press and/or mill will drastically reduce frustrations. But not everyone has the skill level or money to get a decent quality mill for the job. If you have more experience swapping parts on a Glock, that is preferable to the build. A 1911 build has much more tuning involved compared to a Glock build. I would only recommend that route if you have the money for good tools and lots of sandpaper of various grits for fine work.

 

[Trashyshoots]

On the potential competition angle, note that the compensator (and weapon light, if left attached) would put you into Open division in USPSA (and Steel Challenge, which is owned by USPSA), and would exclude the gun outright from some other "sanctioned" (formal rule set) matches. I don't think IDPA allows compensators in any division (but I'm a USPSA guy, not an IDPA guy, so I'd defer to the guys in fishing vests). Just something to be aware of.

Also, just a small terminology/usage note: For whatever reason, brakes on pistols are almost invariably called "compensators" rather than "brakes." Why? IDK (maybe because pistol comps are generally solely designed to keep the gun flat, rather than reducing rearward recoil - you don't want gasses jetting backwards on something as close to your hand and face as a pistol). I don't think it really matters, but among pistol people (and especially the competition guys) nobody calls them "brakes." I don't necessarily think you'd be wrong to call it a "brake," and people will probably know what you're talking about, but you'll definitely be talking like a non-native speaker in that crowd.

Thanks for the compensators vs brakes, I had no idea. Maybe ill use it to play dumb. "Got my extendo clips, muzzle brake, and laser dot."

Ok, maybe not.

So far this thread has been super informational. I know 1911s, I know bullseye but I am completely in the dark about steel shooting. Ive only done informal shoots so this is helping a lot.

 

[ATLDave]

I'm not a Steel Challenge expert by any means, but as I think about it, a 9mm Glock with a slide-riding red-dot and a comp shooting minor (or sub-minor) PF ammo might be a pretty sweet open gun for steel challenge and other all-steel stuff. That game is all about draw speed and transitions, and the light weight of the Glock is nice for that. There's no PF in that game, so the light weight doesn't hurt recoil control. There are no splits (not trying to shoot any piece of steel twice in succession), so, again, the light weight shouldn't be much of a problem. Similarly, a slide mounted dot won't be quite as optimal as a frame-mounted one, but with a light recoiling load and a comp to hold it flat, I bet the difference is very small.

The conventional wisdom in USPSA is that a "roland special"-ish gun of the sort you're contemplating is at a big disadvantage in Open - and it is, in that game. But if pure steel shooting is where you're going, that logically seems like a pretty suitable rig. I could be wrong, just thinking aloud.

 

[Trey Veston]

Don't do the 80% route. Surely there are some GSSF indoor matches in your area and a stock Glock can do very well. Great bunch of folks. 80% guns are not considered Glocks and aren't allowed in Glock events. Just in case you ever got the urge to get into Glock matches.

 

[LoonWulf]

I just finished a P80 compact build, and besides chewing on the web of my hand it's actually one of the nicest pistols of it's type I've shot.
Ive also got a canik tp9sfx, and a rockisland 2011, that I shoot often.

The only actual "stock" glock parts are the sights, pins, locking block, and trigger mech housing. the slides nothing special(off brand), and took some clean up, as did most of the internal parts.
total cost, had i bought the frame kit, would be in the 600-650 dollar range. The actually parts fitting to the frame took about 5 mins with a hand drill, side cutters, exacto knife, and sharp chisel (which would have worked for the exacto knife). Took probably 4-5hours worth of clean up and polish work on internals and the slide, to get to this point as well.

Given the cost had I WANTED a glock, if have just bought a glock.

That said i really havent cared for any glock ive handled, and the square grip with less angle on the p80 frame really feels good in my hand. I may build another one of these simply because i like the way it feels.

If you want something to go hard and fast, starting with a full size p80 and going with all aftermarket parts might be a great way to build up a race gun. Im going to try just that with an 80%arms 9-gst frame when ever they get around to shipping them. Also for the tinkerer, like me, they are a great option.

For a go out and shoot it guy, or really any other reason, especially if you LIKE the way glocks feel, I think your better served buying a factory gun.

 

[SGW Gunsmith]

My advice to any of my customers who buy a new pistol, of any brand or caliber, is to shoot that pistol for whatever time frame they feel will provide them with what they really like about that particular handgun, or what aspects they feel could be modified, or changed for improvement.
I read in so many places about how some will buy a **NEW** handgun and then go on some forum and ask what should they change about this **NEW** gun. You know what you'll get? Someone else's discovery on what works best for them, but may not necessarily work for you. Give your new gun a chance to see if it makes you happy as is. There may only be a time frame involved with a bunch of ammunition and shooting practice that provides all you need.

 

[ATLDave]

My advice to any of my customers who buy a new pistol, of any brand or caliber, is to shoot that pistol for whatever time frame they feel will provide them with what they really like about that particular handgun, or what aspects they feel could be modified, or changed for improvement.
I read in so many places about how some will buy a **NEW** handgun and then go on some forum and ask what should they change about this **NEW** gun. You know what you'll get? Someone else's discovery on what works best for them, but may not necessarily work for you. Give your new gun a chance to see if it makes you happy as is. There may only be a time frame involved with a bunch of ammunition and shooting practice that provides all you need.

I think that's good advice for someone who hasn't got much familiarity with a "platform" (gun type/family/pattern) and/or who doesn't have a very specific purpose in mind. The last gun I bought was purchased from a gunsmith, who then did more than the base cost of the gun gun in some major changes. I didn't want the base gun, as it would be literally useless for my intended purpose. I only wanted what could be built from it. But I already had several guns of the same general pattern, so I already know what they are and are not OOTB.

 

[bdickens]

I'm on board with a lot of the other guys. Unless you have a burning desire to build something yourself, just buy a factory Glock.

 

[Trashyshoots]

My advice to any of my customers who buy a new pistol, of any brand or caliber, is to shoot that pistol for whatever time frame they feel will provide them with what they really like about that particular handgun, or what aspects they feel could be modified, or changed for improvement.
I read in so many places about how some will buy a **NEW** handgun and then go on some forum and ask what should they change about this **NEW** gun. You know what you'll get? Someone else's discovery on what works best for them, but may not necessarily work for you. Give your new gun a chance to see if it makes you happy as is. There may only be a time frame involved with a bunch of ammunition and shooting practice that provides all you need.

I do agree with this, but have put probably 3k rounds through various glock 19s and 1k through a 17.