I've never actually had a functional issue with any grip safety, but I still don't like the feel (mushy and variable) and the whole idea of a grip with a moving part that I have to operate (even though it's automatic). It just seems like one more unnecessary thing that could somehow unexpectedly go wrong.
Grip Safety issues?
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jojo200517
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I'll take a grip safety over a magazine disconnect any day of the week. I have been known to accidentally release a magazine or 2 when shooting. Never had a grip safety on anything I have shot stop me from making it go bang. Now if I got shot in the hand I could see it being a problem like the guy in the ar15.com story.
But to be honest unless you got shot in BOTH hands you shouldn't be totally out of the fight. Everyone should practice shooting in many different methods. I see people that only shoot one stance every time I go to the range and think I'm crazy when I shoot right handed only and then switch to left hand. I don't claim to be nearly as good with either as a 2 hand grip but I can usually hit what i'm shooting at enough to get me by and have fun.
As for so close that the gun gets pushed out of battery and will not fire, well it may have been a few seconds past the time you should have already fired. Like others have said tho, functional gun, good working order, good ammo and it should go back into battery when pressure is released from muzzle. I'd go for yank my arm back and squeeze down on trigger at the same time. I suppose if my arm couldn't move back for some reason I could put all my force into shoving it forward with all my might concentrating the pressure on the relatively smaller space of the muzzle first then yanking it back and squeezing on the bang switch.
Then again I never been in a battle like this and hope to never be just my theory.
I have a theory about those supposed struggles where the bad guy is overpowering ya and got ya hand still holding the gun shoved skyward. My theory is EMPTY THE DANG THING. At least that way if he does manage to overpower me and get it he has an empty gun. I'll still have my spare mag if I start winning the struggle and still need the gun. I guess in this kind of situation a mag safety interlock could be a huge advantage of just dropping the mag out and maybe kicking it away or something instead of firing rounds up into the unknown.
But to be honest unless you got shot in BOTH hands you shouldn't be totally out of the fight. Everyone should practice shooting in many different methods. I see people that only shoot one stance every time I go to the range and think I'm crazy when I shoot right handed only and then switch to left hand. I don't claim to be nearly as good with either as a 2 hand grip but I can usually hit what i'm shooting at enough to get me by and have fun.
As for so close that the gun gets pushed out of battery and will not fire, well it may have been a few seconds past the time you should have already fired. Like others have said tho, functional gun, good working order, good ammo and it should go back into battery when pressure is released from muzzle. I'd go for yank my arm back and squeeze down on trigger at the same time. I suppose if my arm couldn't move back for some reason I could put all my force into shoving it forward with all my might concentrating the pressure on the relatively smaller space of the muzzle first then yanking it back and squeezing on the bang switch.
Then again I never been in a battle like this and hope to never be just my theory.
I have a theory about those supposed struggles where the bad guy is overpowering ya and got ya hand still holding the gun shoved skyward. My theory is EMPTY THE DANG THING. At least that way if he does manage to overpower me and get it he has an empty gun. I'll still have my spare mag if I start winning the struggle and still need the gun. I guess in this kind of situation a mag safety interlock could be a huge advantage of just dropping the mag out and maybe kicking it away or something instead of firing rounds up into the unknown.
Silent Sam
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Browning added the grip safety at the behest of the govt. If you really don't like it or a magazine disconnect on a Hi-Power, they both are relatively easy to get rid of.
AK103K
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You can have troubles with the grip safety not deactivating with a high grip, or a weak grip. Ive had it happen in both cases.
Another issue with them is they dont always work (trigger trips without depressing the safety). Ive had a few over the years that did not work out of the box, the last being my Kimber Ultra Carry. Its important you check to see they do work if youre planning on relying on them.
Another issue with them is they dont always work (trigger trips without depressing the safety). Ive had a few over the years that did not work out of the box, the last being my Kimber Ultra Carry. Its important you check to see they do work if youre planning on relying on them.
Winkman822
Member
Just to try it, I attempted to keep my Springfield TRP out of batter with a snap cap chambered last night and was able to push the slide back into battery without coming off of the grip safety. I use a high hand hold and my right thumb rests atop the thumb safety, the nifty little palm swell on the gun kept the grip safety depressed whilst I moved my thumb over to put the gun back in battery.
It can be done, I'm not going to say I'd want to squeeze the trigger with my thumb there though. I'd want my thumb back atop the safet lever lickety split and in a hurry.
It can be done, I'm not going to say I'd want to squeeze the trigger with my thumb there though. I'd want my thumb back atop the safet lever lickety split and in a hurry.
Nope, never had a problem with one. I have them on eight 1911s and my XD45.
AK103K
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I dont think most 1911 shooters consider the injured/wounded issue and having to shoot the gun with a less than optimal grip.
Next time youre out, give it a try, and I think you might be surprised.
Last summer I was using my Commander as a "control" against my Glock (ended up being the other way around) in a "limp wrist" experiment. Holding both guns with no grip, just the gun resting lightly in my hand, basically the trigger guard resting on my middle finger, and the backstrap on the web of my hand (my trigger finger was the only thing keeping the guns from flying out of my hand when they fired), I ended up with more problems with the 1911 than I did the Glock, which actually made it through 4 full 17 round mags without a stoppage.
The 1911 had a number of "fail to fires" due to the grip safety not being engaged. Now they really werent "stoppages" per se, and the gun did fire when my grip was readjusted, but the gun did not go off when it was supposed to and I was expecting it to.
Its really something something worth trying if you carry a 1911 so you understand whats going on and why and how to deal with it.
Next time youre out, give it a try, and I think you might be surprised.
Last summer I was using my Commander as a "control" against my Glock (ended up being the other way around) in a "limp wrist" experiment. Holding both guns with no grip, just the gun resting lightly in my hand, basically the trigger guard resting on my middle finger, and the backstrap on the web of my hand (my trigger finger was the only thing keeping the guns from flying out of my hand when they fired), I ended up with more problems with the 1911 than I did the Glock, which actually made it through 4 full 17 round mags without a stoppage.
The 1911 had a number of "fail to fires" due to the grip safety not being engaged. Now they really werent "stoppages" per se, and the gun did fire when my grip was readjusted, but the gun did not go off when it was supposed to and I was expecting it to.
Its really something something worth trying if you carry a 1911 so you understand whats going on and why and how to deal with it.
Loosedhorse
member
The only such problem with a grip safety I've encountered is with a S&W Model 40 revolver. It may be a fitting problem: either the grip safety is poorly fitted, or my hand and grip on the frame don't dependably depress the safety. I don't carry it.
For those of you experiencing grip safety problems with a 1911: did these all happend using grip safeties with a raised pad at the bottom? It's pretty hard not to disengage the grip safety with one of those, IMHO.
I would hesitate to disable any safety on a piece used for self-defense. Disabling a safety could later be argued to show recklessness.
For those of you experiencing grip safety problems with a 1911: did these all happend using grip safeties with a raised pad at the bottom? It's pretty hard not to disengage the grip safety with one of those, IMHO.
I would hesitate to disable any safety on a piece used for self-defense. Disabling a safety could later be argued to show recklessness.
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JTQ
Member
I've never had a problem engaging the grip safety on my 1911, and I have a standard grip safety with no pad or ridge on it.
Fellow THR Forum member Sturmgewehre also ran a few limp wrist tests and got a different result. Most have probably seen these videos, but in case you haven't.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsewsolPyBU&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh9JhCyFFxA&feature=related
Fellow THR Forum member Sturmgewehre also ran a few limp wrist tests and got a different result. Most have probably seen these videos, but in case you haven't.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsewsolPyBU&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh9JhCyFFxA&feature=related
Carbonator
Member
At the local Cabela's I tried dry firing a Smith & Wesson revolver w/ back strap grip safety and in trying not-so-perfect various grip holds, the trigger locked up multiple times preventing me from pulling the trigger. Kinda defeats one of the main benefits of a revolver. I would never own one.
I am not a big fan of XD's and I do prefer Glocks for various reasons, but the main reason is the grip safety. I think the XD grip safety was born out of Springfield's marketing department - more gadgetry and flash at the expense of functionality. I guess they try to add things to differentiate themselves from Glocks. I would never own an XD because of the back strap.
One requirement for all of my hand guns is that I must be able to shoot well one handed with a not-so-good grip, with either hand. If I ever have to shoot someone I don't think I will be in a perfect shooting range stance, both hands on the gun, and it likely won't be a piece of paper attacking me. Good chance I'll have already been injured by the time I draw. I won't be thinking of switchable safeties or proper grip at that split second. Maybe I'll be fixated on that kitchen knife that is coming at me.
I don't want anything that complicates my self defense guns. I know some people like guns with multiple trigger actions, switchable safeties, decockers, exposed hammers, grip safeties, ambidextrious mag releases, unchambered carry etc... To me they are for the most part potential weak links that complicate a self defense situation.
Most of all, if the moment comes when I have to god forbid shoot someone, I don't want that split second decision and mental process to be cluttered because I am thinking about my safeties or if my grip is sufficient to disengage the grip safety or if I really do have a round in the chamber. I want to be thinking 100% about whether or not I need to shoot another human being. I have heard quite a few cases where the decision to shoot was so fine that it could have blown either way given a slight influence in either direction - "I almost shot that guy but everything turned out ok" etc...
KISS Keep It Simple Stupid and all that...
I am not a big fan of XD's and I do prefer Glocks for various reasons, but the main reason is the grip safety. I think the XD grip safety was born out of Springfield's marketing department - more gadgetry and flash at the expense of functionality. I guess they try to add things to differentiate themselves from Glocks. I would never own an XD because of the back strap.
One requirement for all of my hand guns is that I must be able to shoot well one handed with a not-so-good grip, with either hand. If I ever have to shoot someone I don't think I will be in a perfect shooting range stance, both hands on the gun, and it likely won't be a piece of paper attacking me. Good chance I'll have already been injured by the time I draw. I won't be thinking of switchable safeties or proper grip at that split second. Maybe I'll be fixated on that kitchen knife that is coming at me.
I don't want anything that complicates my self defense guns. I know some people like guns with multiple trigger actions, switchable safeties, decockers, exposed hammers, grip safeties, ambidextrious mag releases, unchambered carry etc... To me they are for the most part potential weak links that complicate a self defense situation.
Most of all, if the moment comes when I have to god forbid shoot someone, I don't want that split second decision and mental process to be cluttered because I am thinking about my safeties or if my grip is sufficient to disengage the grip safety or if I really do have a round in the chamber. I want to be thinking 100% about whether or not I need to shoot another human being. I have heard quite a few cases where the decision to shoot was so fine that it could have blown either way given a slight influence in either direction - "I almost shot that guy but everything turned out ok" etc...
KISS Keep It Simple Stupid and all that...
DeepSouth
Random Guy
I have XD's and 1911's and have never had a problem, nor do I know of any person who has ever had a problem. Other than on the net of course. 
AK103K
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His videos and a discussion here, or TFL was the reason I was trying it out.
Holding the 1911 sideways as he did in his videos, firmly depresses the grip safety. If you hold the gun in a more realistic manner, but with a weak grip, I think youre going to find you're more apt to have some problems.
I didnt have near as much trouble as he did with the Glock. I only had failures when holding it sideways, and even then, I only had a 1 in 3 or 4 and sometimes more, failure rate. Holding it more realistically, it fired and cycled every time. Ejection wasnt as brisk, but the gun still worked.
I was a little surprised with the Commander's performance though, but the more I thought about it, the more it made/makes sense. The lighter your grip, the more it puts pressure at the top of the grip safety, which tends to bring it out at the bottom, disengaging it.
Youre best bet with any of them, if youre planning on trusting your life with them, is to try things out for yourself and see how things go. If you can get them to fail in practice, you'll at least know ahead of time what to expect, and be able to correct some things ahead of time, or deal with things if things go wrong.
DeepSouth
Random Guy
Actually, you have your safeties mixed up. His original design had a grip safety but no thumb safety. He added the thumb safety for them.
This is correct, the original 1911 was designed without the thumb safety and to be carried with an empty chamber. It was designed for mounted soldiers and the thumb safety was requested to lessen the possibility of shooting their horses when reholsteringActually, you have your safeties mixed up. His original design had a grip safety but no thumb safety. He added the thumb safety for them.
OTOH, I know several folks who have problems disengaging grip safeties on 1911 or 2011 style pistols, including myself. On my competition guns I deactivate the safety altogether. On my carry guns I "desensitize" the grip safety and use a safety with a raised hump.
The problem seems to be most pronounced with a really high grip in conjunction with going to the races.
For some folks, they simply have a hand that leaves a little void along the back of the gun.If you work on 1911s long enough you will occasionally come across pistols that have what we used to call "chicken choker" grip safeties on them. Sometimes on a factory new gun and sometimes on an older gun where someone had been swapping grip safeties or mainspring housings or triggers around. It's a simple fix and there is no reason to put up with one that won't disengage easily every time without requiring you to alter your natural grip. On a lot of competition IPSC or steel guns the grip safety is commonly adjusted to release with a 1/16th" of movement or rendered completely inoperative because of the speed required to draw and hit sometimes leaves you with a less than perfect grip. All of my race guns have had the grip safety deactivated.
Cop Bob
Member
The revolver has the same problem if the assailant grabs the weapon where it can lock up the cylinder....
The auto on the other hand, pull back and pull the trigger.unless the hammer follows the slide home when it comes back into battery... either that or don't push it so hard into his gut if think you will have to pull the trigger... the belly button doesn't HAVE to touch the back bone...
Seriously, that close in, tuck the weapon, at the ready(pointed at the object of your attention)), up against your side. If they make a move , turn weapon side away and push at them with the off/weak hand... put some distance between you..
I've never had a problem with the grip safety on either XD's or 1911's. I think part of it has to do with the fact that I have pretty meaty hands with short fingers. I can't reach the trigger without depressing the grip safety. I can see if you have more slender/bony hands that there could be some issues.
Personally, I like the grip safety for 2 reasons.
1. If you're re-holserting an XD you can pull your thumb off of the grip and push the back of the slide into the holster. This adds another level of protection against "glock leg" should something enter the trigger guard.
2. Shooters who may drop a gun...seems like the grip safety would be slightly less likely if you're fumbling with a dropped gun (which is a natural reaction). The grip safety can keep a stray finger in the trigger guard from discharging the gun.
Personally, I like the grip safety for 2 reasons.
1. If you're re-holserting an XD you can pull your thumb off of the grip and push the back of the slide into the holster. This adds another level of protection against "glock leg" should something enter the trigger guard.
2. Shooters who may drop a gun...seems like the grip safety would be slightly less likely if you're fumbling with a dropped gun (which is a natural reaction). The grip safety can keep a stray finger in the trigger guard from discharging the gun.
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