h335 Temperature Sensitivity

[heavydluxe]

Hi, everyone.

As always, I come here because the community knowledge is just incredible - and incredibly helpful.

I live in New England and am getting ready for hunting season. I'm going to attempt to go after deer with a .223. It's legal where I live and, since most of the shots here are very close, I know I can get the bullet on target with plenty of energy to do the job if I place the shot.

I've bought some 60gr Nosler Partition bullets that I'm going to handload. But, the only powder I currently have on hand (and I have quite a bit of it) is Hodgdon H335. I'm going to work up a load, but I'm a little concerned now about something I hadn't thought about - Temperature Sensitivity.

Deer season for rifle here can be autumn warm, or bitter winter cold. How much variance should I expect for this powder in winter weather? I'd probably work up the load in Oct, but the season is in Nov. I'm guessing the biggest worry would be a loss of pressure, resulting in slower muzzle velocity and lower impacts. Right?

Any help appreciated.

 

[Axis II]

I used to use it for 55gr with cci small rifle mag primers and switched cause I didn't like the accuracy compared to others. my limited knowledge with it says use a mag primer cause of the powder type and that's what others recommended me and work up the load when its warm out like right now so incase you decide to shoot that load in the summer you don't have an uh oh incident cause it was worked up in the cold. some might say a mag primer isn't needed but it took me from 3inch groups to 1 inch groups when I started using a mag primer.

I tried h322 which has a small spread this summer and it was so hot I was sweating on the bench. well my dumb arse had the box of ammo sitting right in the sun and even though its an extreme powder I put a low-mid range load in the gun and fired and had a stick bolt. was it the sun/heat or just too hot for the gun I'm not sure cause I stopped and pulled all those rounds. now the box sits under the bench or in the shoot shack and I grab 4-5 at a time when needed.

on a side not and not to be rude. just because some desk jocky at your div of wildlife says 223rem is legal for deer doesn't mean its a good choice. ive shot woodchucks and seen coyotes shot with 223rem and it doesn't always put them down. savage axis makes a hell of a rifle in larger calibers that will be better suited for deer. Ohio says I can use a 38spl to kill deer but id rather shoot one with a bow than use a 38spl. if your dead set on 223rem id get a heavy 68gr+ hollow point or soft point for deer. just make sure you start from book min and work your way up with any bullet, primer or powder change of one or another.

 

[thomas15]

Well said ohihunter2014

 

[heavydluxe]

on a side not and not to be rude. just because some desk jocky at your div of wildlife says 223rem is legal for deer doesn't mean its a good choice. ive shot woodchucks and seen coyotes shot with 223rem and it doesn't always put them down. savage axis makes a hell of a rifle in larger calibers that will be better suited for deer. Ohio says I can use a 38spl to kill deer but id rather shoot one with a bow than use a 38spl. if your dead set on 223rem id get a heavy 68gr+ hollow point or soft point for deer. just make sure you start from book min and work your way up with any bullet, primer or powder change of one or another.

Not rude at all... I appreciate your honesty.

I know it's not a popular choice, but I think the science shows it's perfectly sufficient at close ranges (<100yrds) with modern, bonded bullets. If I was hunting anywhere where I was likely to have more than a 75yrd shot or if I wasn't really, solidly confident in my marksmanship, I wouldn't try it at all. As it is, I won't do it unless I get the bench shots grouped REALLY tight while testing the load. If there's any substantial variance, I'll look to borrow a rifle in a different caliber.

So, respect. (Or is it 'respekt' or something nowadays?) But, respectfully disagree.

PS - Happy to banter about the caliber/cartridge issue more, though that should probably move to the hunting forum rather than here.

 

[Axis II]

Not rude at all... I appreciate your honesty.

I know it's not a popular choice, but I think the science shows it's perfectly sufficient at close ranges (<100yrds) with modern, bonded bullets. If I was hunting anywhere where I was likely to have more than a 75yrd shot or if I wasn't really, solidly confident in my marksmanship, I wouldn't try it at all. As it is, I won't do it unless I get the bench shots grouped REALLY tight while testing the load. If there's any substantial variance, I'll look to borrow a rifle in a different caliber.

So, respect. (Or is it 'respekt' or something nowadays?) But, respectfully disagree.

PS - Happy to banter about the caliber/cartridge issue more, though that should probably move to the hunting forum rather than here.

if you have small deer and inside 100yards with a heavy bullet id do it. ive hit some large body ohio deer with 12ga slugs and 250gr ml bullets and had them keep on trucking. now I'm slinging the heaviest, fastest bullet I can but some of our bucks weigh 200lbs field dressed so that's a lot of animal. from what ive read h335 performs well with the heavy bullets so you might score.

 

[Walkalong]

People do hunt deer with .223, but shot placement is a lot more crucial, as well as using a good bullet that will expand and hold together.

Work your load up in the heat and then don't worry about a little loss in velocity in the cold. You can always retest accuracy when it cools off to help your confidence with the load shooting well when you need it.

 

[Blue68f100]

You could test your loads by icing them down. Keep in a cooler till your ready to shoot. At least on a cold barrel you will have an idea of what to expect. When I shoot during the summer I keep all my ammo in a small cooler. Then pull the box when I'm ready to shoot. If shaded I leave it out. But if not it goes back into the cooler to shield it from excessive heat.

 

[Hardtarget]

I'll suggest work your load toward the upper end of a safe load. Pushed fast to deliver as much energy as you can get out of the .223. Deer are not super animals but it does take a well placed bullet! Load 'em up and get out there! Good hunting and good luck!


Mark

 

[Kingcreek]

I've seen some pressure issues with H335 on a prairie dog shoot in really hot weather. You won't have any problems in autumn warm.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

If you're going to hunt deer with a .223 then the 60gr Nosler Partition is a good bullet to do it with IMO.

I agree you should not be too concerned about losing velocity in the cold. It should not be an issue at shirt distances like you describe. @~ 2900-3000 fps depending on your barrel length you should be fine. I would however use a Magnum class primer with H335, cold or not, but it will help in the cold.

 

[Walkalong]

I have had better luck with Mag primers and H335. Just more consistent. I haven't loaded any in some time, have two brand new 1 Lb bottles from 15 plus years ago. It's good stuff though, just been playing with other stuff and using up some TAC (7 Lbs) I had leftover from experimenting with it in 6 PPC.

 

[Kaldor]

Hi, everyone.

As always, I come here because the community knowledge is just incredible - and incredibly helpful.

I live in New England and am getting ready for hunting season. I'm going to attempt to go after deer with a .223. It's legal where I live and, since most of the shots here are very close, I know I can get the bullet on target with plenty of energy to do the job if I place the shot.

I've bought some 60gr Nosler Partition bullets that I'm going to handload. But, the only powder I currently have on hand (and I have quite a bit of it) is Hodgdon H335. I'm going to work up a load, but I'm a little concerned now about something I hadn't thought about - Temperature Sensitivity.

Deer season for rifle here can be autumn warm, or bitter winter cold. How much variance should I expect for this powder in winter weather? I'd probably work up the load in Oct, but the season is in Nov. I'm guessing the biggest worry would be a loss of pressure, resulting in slower muzzle velocity and lower impacts. Right?

Any help appreciated.

Heavy, Id look more into a powder that is not temp sensitive. Best bet in my book, 8208 XBR if you want good temp sensitivity and accuracy, or CFE223 if want to chase velocity. Varget is also a choice, but will need a compressed load to see CFE223 velocities. My advice is find that last node that gives you the best accuracy with the highest velocity, youll need it with a medium sized game animal. Playing around at a lower velocity just isnt going to cut it.

The bullet choice is probably fine. Any decent hunting bullet that wont fly apart at 2500-3000 FPS when it impacts should be good to go. I actually had this discussion with a friend not long ago, and by pure reputation Swift Scirocco 75gr bullets would be my choice. A tough bullet that expands well and has enough weight to do some damage. However you shoot a deer in the front quarter, no 223 bullet is enough to drop them as there just wont be enough damage.

That being said, we have big deer here in Wisconsin, as we see bucks that dress out over 300# all the time. As a hunter, and an ethical one at that, I dont consider 223 a valid bullet choice for that big of an animal, kind of like ohiohunter pointed out. Yes, my shot placement could be perfect, but how often do you get that perfect shot, and Im not betting on Mr Murphy to not step in and screw something up. Plus, I want my animal DRT, so I use Hornady SSTs in my 308 (165gr with Varget) and 300 BO (125gr with W296), and they are loaded hot for hunting loads. I wish Hornady made SSTs in 224 caliber... Obviously my opinion here, as your situation is very likely different.