Halloween Happenings

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K

ky_man

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Louisville, KY
Had a weird incident just now, I caught a suspicious guy in my driveway after dark (~11pm). See what you think:

I go outside to clean up my Halloween decorations out front; I turn on the light and begin to clean up. All of a sudden, a person (~18-25 yrs. dark skinned, wearing a winter hat and a backpack, long sleeved shirt and jeans, tucked in) kind of jogs down my driveway.

My motion light is on my my garage in the back. I look up and yell "Hey!" and he keeps jogging through my neighbor's yard.

Strange thing happened next: I yell "Hey!" again and he darts into my neighbor's driveway and takes off behind his house. ***!?

So I go over (against my wife's wishes) and bang on my neighbor's door. I tell him what happened and he looks over at his neighbor's yard, and her motion light is on in her backyard.

What to think about this? I think the kid was trying to jump a fence to shortcut (I live in the suburbs with lots of fenced yards) my wife thinks he was up to no good. My backyard is fully chainlink fenced with an 7' privacy fence in the back. You cannot "cut through" my yard. You can jump my neighbor's fence and after trespassing on several other properties make a shortcut to a main road. Regardless, the guy should NOT have been in my driveway after dark.

I've only lived in this neighborhood for 4 months now, and it seems pretty decent. There are some ghetto apartments about 3/4 mile away, and there was an early morning rape down there a week ago. I have heard a couple reports of drug dogs being called out for traffic stops in my area over my scanner. The neighborhood has lots of kids and young families.

I'm going to add another motion sensing light to the side of my house tomorrow. Any thoughts? If anyone tries to force entry I have a Remington 870 with #4 shot waiting for them. If I caught a guy in my garage, I'd probably poke my head out the back door and yell "I'm armed!" at the top of my lungs and rack the slide on 'ol 870 to get their legs moving.
 
Some people just seem to think there are no rules...at least for them. Also, halloween will have more of those kind of events than the rest of the year. I've lived here for 35 yrs. and only had one"just cuttin' through". (there have been four car breakins though) You may never see that again...hopefully.

Be careful going out. Think about his friends in the shadows. :what:

Mark.
 
well I don't know how things are out in 'tucky but down here in Texas if someone is caught after dark on your property they are assumed to be up to no good and use of deadly force is justified.

If someone took enough effort to hop a fence and avoid lights and such they surely aren't there for a shortcut.

Although (unfortunately) a call to the local LEA about a suspicious person would have most likely done no good (especially considering it's Halloween) it might have been warranted on any other night.

They might not have done anything (yet) but I would bet my arse that if an opportunity arose that they would jump on it.
 
Always call the cops and always file a report. In case you have to use deadly force, you can point to how you have called the cops in the past and so on...

For the record, that was very weird. He went through the backyards to get to a different street quickly. If you called the cops, they search x amount of streets looking for someone. He can "blow the grid" by moving threw back yards.

The backpack is what worries me most. Full of drugs / contraband from his thefts... Keep an eye out for this person in your area. Call the police and file the report today about the suspicious person.
 
I’m generally willing to give people the benefit of the doubt, but there’s something about this guy I encountered – he wasn't friendly or apologetic in any way. He didn't make eye contact and shifted gears very quickly to getting off the property with a minimum of interaction.

There is nothing indicating that my property is a cut-through to anywhere.

I spoke to my boss who grew up in the neighborhood I live in now, and she said she used to "cut through" by jumping fences. Only did it a couple times, though.

I'm still going to add that motion sensing light to the driveway side of my house. My driveway is about 80' long, and the light/sensor on the garage doesn't reach far enough down to illuminate these areas.

I have a dog, but she was asleep on the couch. Not much help, I suppose. She's a spaniel/border collie mix, around 25 lbs.

If the dude had stayed on my property I would have grabbed the 12-gauge from my closet, but since he was already on a neighbor's property I wasn't going to even attempt that.

What can I do to improve the security of my property?

Motion lights
Infrared motion sensor on driveway
No trespassing signs
 
Well, I think I caused some fear last night myself. Not intentionally, however.

I walked out of my house and was in the street walking (to have a smoke) as an SUV was pulling up to the house to drop off kids for trick-or-treating (people around here sometimes do it by car so their kids cover a larger area as it's hit-or-miss for houses celebrating Halloween in my neighborhood). Anyways, they drop off their 3 or 4 little girls (I intentionally had the yard dark and dimly lit with green so as a result I couldn't really see much myself).

The girls walked up the driveway and knocked on the door which was fine because I left candy-duty to somebody else while I was out.

However, I got the impression the parents were a little nervous with me around. I didn't want to totally freak them out by going back towards the house because it might appear that I was following their girls. Yet at the same time, me walking back and forth just admiring other house's decor seemed to make them nervous too. The mother and father were just sitting there in their SUV watching me and then looking over at their kids.

Started making me feel nervous.... and I'm there trying to help not make them nervous. Of course they didn't know I lived right there.

As the girls got back in the vehicle after getting candy, the SUV sort of sped off.

I guess the combination of a big mid-twenties guy walking around slowly on Halloween and their kids being so young just freaked them out.
 
"It's ok girls, walk past the big scary man pacing around and go knock on the stranger's door. It's Halloween!"

The guy in your driveway was probably up to no good. Just keep in condition yellow for a while.
 
I am with your wife on this one. You call to him and he responds by darting off though other people's property. He's up to no-good. Call the police and file a report. Does your wife know how to handle the 870 in your absence? Motion lights and the sensors is a good idea but put them in areas that are not easily seen. Plant some thorn bushes if you have widows that are accessible from hidden areas. Teach your dog how to bark at anyone's approach. Nothing gets close to us unnoticed thanks to my two chocolate labs.
 
they are assumed to be up to no good and use of deadly force is justified.
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Legally justified. That will keep you out of jail, which it should.

But I think that shooting someone who in fact was not up to no good would weigh on you for a very long time.

If you shot someone who was acting suspicious on Halloween, and it turned out to be someone who was pulling a prank or had gotten lost, I think that would be a heavy burden. I think Halloween is a very tough day to be making the shoot/no shoot decision.

As an example, if someone comes up covered in blood and screaming at you while swinging a scythe 364 days of the year, you're close to 100% sure that they intend you harm. On Halloween, that "% sure" drops dramatically - not to 0%, but a heck of a lot less than 100%.

You can jump my neighbor's fence and after trespassing on several other properties make a shortcut to a main road.
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The world's gotten to be a lot more legal in the last 20 years. Most of my youth, up to an including high school, we cut through most of the yards in the neighborhood when we were on the way somewhere. It wouldn't have been called "trespassing" in those days, I don't think. Maybe it was, and we just didn't know it. :) But we generally took the shortest path - if if that involved holes in chain link fences around golf courses, etc. :)

We called it "cutting through", but I guess it was really trespassing.

Mike
 
I think Halloween is a very tough day to be making the shoot/no shoot decision.
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Agreed, but a perp also knows that which makes it even better for them.

To the OP, I agree with your wife. My wife usually thinks I'm being paranoid, even after having porch chairs stolen, a wishing well trashed, etc. I've put motion detecting lights all over my house so that the entire perimeter is covered. Most are double flood lights covering both directions. It is simply no fun at all to try something and escape through my yard anymore. What small portions of my property is not covered is covered by my equally suspicious neighbor's security lights.:D I'm still vigilant, but there has been no problems since the lights, and that's been several years.
 
In Texas you can legally execute someone for being in your yard after dark? No weapons, no threats, just being there? I don't think so.

K
 
In Texas you can legally execute someone for being in your yard after dark? No weapons, no threats, just being there? I don't think so.
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wrong wording bub, execution is premeditated and shooting an uninvited stranger seeking to do harm of one sort or another is not.
 
In Texas you can legally execute someone for being in your yard after dark? No weapons, no threats, just being there? I don't think so.
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Execution is a little strong of a word. Shoot to stop the threat, not to execute.

Read page 66 here:
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/ls-16.pdf

Deadly force is justified when it is reasonably believed to be immediately necessary to prevent the imminent commission of criminal mischief at nighttime.

When I was younger, I personally ran through a few yards on halloween:eek:, in Texas:eek:, at night:eek:, and with a backpack:eek:. I was not shot; If I had been, it would have been a s**ty situation for the shooter. Would the toilet paper in my backpack have proven the shooting justifiable? I don't know, but the shooter would need to lawyer up for sure.

My answer to the OP:
If it was my yard I would be concerned, pay closer attention for a few weeks, and then settle back into my regular state of vigilance. Lights in the yard are great; criminals and wild teenagers share a dislike for being lit up when their up to no good.:)
 
Regarding my reply about "executing" someone in yard after dark:

That was in reply to another poster who said, "...but down here in Texas if someone is caught after dark on your property they are assumed to be up to no good and use of deadly force is justified."

That's what he said. Nothing about vandalism, weapons, threats, theft, or any other activity except being on your property after dark. Now, this has come up before in various threads. Someone posted the Texas law and nothing in the law says you can "assume" someone on your property after dark is doing something that justifies a lethal force response.

If the poster believes that the law says otherwise, I would invite him to post the text here.

K
 
Kentac:
My mistake, I missed the previous posters comment. My example was intended to show a situation where it would be legal but unadvisable to shoot.

I think we're on the same page concerning the comment:
down here in Texas if someone is caught after dark on your property they are assumed to be up to no good and use of deadly force is justified
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That's a no shoot situation for me, lawful or not.
 
Halo,

No problemo. I agree the OP's scenario is a "no shoot" situation both by law and morally. I think we need to be careful and "high road" about what we say on forums like this so as not to misrepresent the gun community as having blood lust or being trigger happy, because we are not that. Also, you never know what naive person might misread comments and take them to heart and act accordingly. And find themselves in deep doo-doo.

K
 
The link for criminal mischief confirms that TPing someones house is criminal mischief.
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I wonder if that would hold up in court. Would you really shoot someone for TPing your house? :scrutiny:
 
I wonder if that would hold up in court.
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No it wouldn't hold up in court for a single second.

The people who like to quote the Criminal Mishchief clause forget to read the rest of the law.

Now, for the whole law.
§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.
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I'm sorry, but if someone really believes that a TP'd house is an unrecoverable loss, they need a mental exam. Texas is sympathetic to the use of deadly force against criminals.. but you won't find a jury anywhere in Texas that will agree lethal force is the reasonable and prudent response to toilet paper.
 
Strange thing happened next: I yell "Hey!" again and he darts into my neighbor's driveway and takes off behind his house. ***!?
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Jogger or heading home - either way you spooked him with your 2nd yell.

What's the big deal? Guy was going home as far as you knew? He ran on your grass and your neighbor's grass. The world will now stop and come to end. Oh the evil!

<shakes head, mutters - GEEEZ - some of you guys really need to lighten up - the world's not out to get you and not everyone who trods on your lawn is a home invader!>
 
Driveway, porch and back porch lights shouldn't be motion sensors, but "always on" lights. Bright lights, that are pointed downward to flood your property with light. Motion lights should be put on the sides of houes and in areas of your front and backyard that are "weak", places you think someone would hide because of cover and lack of light. Bad guys are like roaches and if they are trying to "hide in the bushes" and lights keep coming on, they will move elsewhere. I do not know much about how your set up, but that is some general advice.

You can get some great gear at http://www.smarthome.com, video surviellance equipment, alarm systems, motion lights (X11) and other stuff.

Also, you might consider getting a handgun. Shotguns are the best for home defense, but they are unweildy and do not work well in all situations. If you read American Rifleman, you will constantly read about how the victim had to "retrieve" a weapon.... Well, try to cut that part out. I wonder how many home invasions are the other way around because the victims were unable to retreive the weapon.
 
<shakes head, mutters - GEEEZ - some of you guys really need to lighten up - the world's not out to get you and not everyone who trods on your lawn is a home invader!>
Click to expand...

Nah. Kill 'em all and let God sort them out. At least, that seems to be the attitude of some.

A stranger in your yard after dark: a reason to be cautious and prudently watchful? Yes. A reason to start shooting? No.

K
 
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