Help with an old M1911 story

[shtinkypuppie]

Howdy,

I recently inherited a government M1911 from my grandfather. I remember (poorly) the story of how the weapon got into the family, but am trying to fill in the details, which I hope ya'll can help with.

My grandfather was drafted early in the Korean war. He shipped over after the Inchon landing, and I remember clearly he said his unit relieved the 1st Cavalry, which from my reading suggests he was with the 45th Infantry. He was a cryptographer, and was seldom on the MLR. I remember him saying he was dissatisfied with his sidearm, and asked that my grandmother buy a surplus M1911 stateside and send it to him. Again, my memory of this story is far from perfect, but I vaguely remember him saying he had been issued some sort of sub-machine gun or carbine which he found unreliable. Does anyone have any ideas on what his issued sidearm may have been?

Thanks in advance for any insight, and I apologize if this post is in the wrong area.
Eric

 

[Jim Watson]

There was a lot of badmouthing about the M1 Carbine during and after Korea.
Might have been what he didn't like.

 

[shotgunjoel]

His issue weapon was likely an M1 Carbine, or possibly an M3 "grease gun" sub-machine gun. If he was looking for a 1911, I think that he could have gotten one more easily in Korea than having his wife ship him a surplus one. Don't know though.

 

[mnrivrat]

Rank and unit duty played a roll in the weapons you were issued. He may not have been issued a side arm at all.

The M2 carbine was used for issue in many area's and if he drew a well used one, it could indeed have given him problems. My good friend who served in Korea had the M2 and was fond of it. For him it was reliable and somewhat controlable in auto fire.

 

[shtinkypuppie]

Thanks guys. It may well have been an old M2 Carbine with its gas-operation parts gummed up, because I vaguely remember it being capable of automatic fire. Hard to say for sure though. He was not an officer at this point, but I don't know what rank he held then.

 

[peyton]

Welcome to the forum and then you have to follow the below instrucions

 

[shtinkypuppie]

If i must...

 

[whalerman]

What's an MLR?

 

[CapnMac]

MLR = Main Line of Resistance

Used to be called a 'front' line, from when riflemen marched in columns, then wheeled to "face front" in line abreast on the battlefield.

It is also a measure of where units are oriented. An artillery unit will be "behind" he MLR, but oriented towards the MLR for its fires. That arty unit is "at the front" but not on the MLR.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

The only snag in the story, and I may be totally wrong, but few 1911A1's, like your Dad's, had been sold to the public between WWII and Korea (if any. Remember, it was the current issue service pistol, and still heavily in use). It is a distinct possibility that that gun had been either "liberated" by some soldier coming home from WWII and sold on the civilian market, and thus ended up in your Dad's hands that way. OR he fudged on the story of how he got it, and it got "liberated" by him coming back from Korea, and he just didn't want to tell you the whole story. It all hinges on the availability of an obviously "previously government owned" 1911A1. It is not the old 1911 of WWI vintage, and it is not a commercial Colt, which would have been blued and marked with dfferent markings. If is was brought home by any GI, it wouldn't have been the first one. Unless he had a receipt for the purchase, it would have been a strong possiblity that someone in the Army would have challenged his legal ownership of it, much like a GI today acquiring a Beretta M9 in Afghanistan, and having to prove it was NOT property of the Army.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

There was a lot of badmouthing about the M1 Carbine during and after Korea.
Might have been what he didn't like.

And all of it justified.

As an Adviser to the ARVN, I was issued an M2 carbine in 1966. It got accidentally wrapped around a tree.

 

[rondog]

So, shtinkypuppy, what make is the pistol? Can you take some better, clearer photos of it with a camera and not a phone? Does it have US Property stamped on it anywhere? Does the serial number start with a "C"? That certainly looks like a standard M1911A1, but those were made by several manufacturers, not just Colt, and some are quite valuable. If the s/n starts with a C, it's not a military model, which would support your story about Grandma.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

What's an MLR?

In that era, standard US tactics called for fighting in two lines on the defense. The foreard line (about 1,100 yards in front) was the Combat Outpost Line (COPL). It was manned by one platoon from each forward deployed company, or one company from each battalion. It's mission was to delay, decieve and channelize the enemy -- in other words, to strip away the enemy reconnaisance.

Behind the COPL was the Main Line of Resistance (MLR). The aim was to stop the enemy at the MLR.

 

[shtinkypuppie]

SharpsDressedMan: My grandmother (who is still with us) very clearly remembers buying the M1911 in Idaho and shipping it to him. Thus I'm sure he didn't 'liberate' it, although someone else may have. It had some Colt commercial documentation with it when he died, but I don't know if he bought those separately.

rondog: This is definitely a Remington remake, government model. The weapon is marked "Remington Rand Inc Syracuse, N.Y. U.S.A" on the left side of the slide, with the usual "FJA" stamp on the left above and behind the trigger. The right side of the receiver says "United States Property M1911A1 U.S. ARMY NO 2382648". It has a "0" at the top of the trigger guard and a "P" behind the mag release. My brother inherited an identical piece, but we believe my grandfather acquired that one privately after his service.