Holy Cow! A .22 wadcutter...sort of

Status
Not open for further replies.
usp9

usp9

Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2005
Messages
4,001
Location
Bowling Green, Va
This thread is related to the Walther TPH thread earlier, in that I took my new Gun to the range today to try it out. I took 3 different .22 rounds to see if one was better in any way shape or form. The three were; CCI Stingers, CCI Velocitors, and Aguila Supermaximum Velocity. I shot at about 10 yards.

First the Stingers, good enough group, no problem. o

Second the Velocitors, same results o

Then the Aguila. The Aguila cut a perfect .38 caliber wadcutter size hole in the paper 0

Unbelievable expansion at 10 yards. Never seen anything like this.:what: All from a 2 1/2" barrel!! I don't know what speed the round achieved, but it sure did expand quickly, and if it's moving anywhere near the 1430 fps velocity it would hurt anything it hit.
I was Very impressed!

Besides being stunned by the Aguila performance, the Walther TPH performed well too. Easy to shoot, did not bother or cut the web of my hand as I heard these guns tend to do, shot about a 3" group. Overall I was very pleased...a nice little gun.
 
Sounds more like keyholing! Bullet tumbling over...nice one though!

Can you give more info on the aguila? Which one specifically, lot number?

Good luck on replicating that performance!
 
Not a keyhole

I know keyholes. I shoot a Seecamp, and it regularly keyholes. This was a PERFECT wadcutter punch. Not once but every round. I showed it to other folks there who didn't believe a .22 did this magic thing...until they shot also. Same result.

The rounds are Aguila, 30 grain hollow point, supermaximum hyper velocity, copper plated, Eley primed.
Don't see a lot no. on the box.

I admit, you almost have to see it to believe it. But that's an accurate rendition of what happened. I've been shooting for 40 years, and today was real experience.:what:
 
I know keyholes. I shoot a Seecamp, and it regularly keyholes. This was a PERFECT wadcutter punch. I showed it to other folks there who didn't believe a .22 did this magic thing...until they shot also. Same result.
Click to expand...
Were any of those other folks shooting .38 wadcutters?
 
Did someone else shoot my target...

No, and if they did the rounds would have left the building, as I was in the first lane, next guy was in lane 4. I'm not the only one who shot. Have you ever fired these rounds to see what they do? I had never heard of them til I bought the Walther, and wanted a hotter round for it. Is this a unique experience or normal for such a small, fast bullet. I've fired tens of thousands of various .22 and never seen anything like this...nor had anyone else.

My gun, a Walther TPH, fired the round, Aguila .22, that made the hole in the paper.
 
I always thought that bullets only expanded upon impact and then only got to maximum expansion at a certain depth while traveling through a solid or semi-solid medium that isn't ambient air. I can't imagine the bullets expanding in mid-flight to hit the paper at 10 yards already expanded. Hmmmm......... :confused:
 
I have heard of some older reloaders speak of bullets dissappearing in midair. This was due to the fact that the reloader loaded up some 22-250 and 220 Swift to substantial velocity (the bullet makers didn't have the technology that they have today) and the bullet just came apart from the velocity and spin rates. He said you could see a little puff of dust and that was it. This didn't occur on every shot, but enough that it made for some interesting shooting! He compared it to one of the exploding golf balls.
 
USP9, I wasn't challenging the veracity of your statement. I was merely proffering an alternate explanation. On more than one occasion I have found holes in my target that I did not put there.
 
i usually hear this story associated with little berettas. someone posted a video in handguns: general discussion last year, claiming to document it.
 
Yep. This has happened before, with the same ammo. For some reason, that Aguilla stuff through a short barrel expands in midair. Maybe it's hollow-based? I dunno.
 
Aguila wadcutters

This is the second time in two weeks I've heard of this. Both times there were constants involved. Aguila ammo and 2.5" barrel guns.

The first concerned someone who claimed to have witnessed this at the range I belong to. The story involved Aguila 60 gr SSS (SubSonic Sniper) ammo out of a a 2.5" barrel.

Now you say you've seen it from your 2.5" barrel with higher velocity round of half the weight.

Could it be that we have an effect here that most don't think of when the round is launched?

Could the short 2.5" barrell be launching both rounds comparatively slow (since there isn't much barrel there isn't a lot of time for compression to build up and for the bullet to gain speed).

When the round leaves the muzzle of this short barrelled gun might the heated gasses escaping behind it be moving faster and heat up the soft lead? Then the heated round would be more malleable and the resistance of the air it is passing through on the way to the target might deform the round in flight. The air pressure in front of the round is uniform, giving you a nice round shape much larger than the diameter of an undeformed .22 LR.

I'm just guessing and considering my guess I'm sure I'll be accused of blowing smoke out of my... muzzle.:uhoh:

That the two constants of this story are Aguila ammo and 2.5" barrel guns seems to point to some possible explanation for what seems physically impossible.
 
My bet is that the bullets are soft enough, hollow base, and the pressure on the base high enough that the base is blown out to about that dimension. I'm still surprised that the bullets are striking front on. I wouldn't trust them for defence.
 
Yep, have seen the expanded base happen out of the short NAA Mini-revolver with some types of ammo. Must still be enough powder burning to blow the base out just as it clears the muzzle.

Longer barrels have the pressure much reduced when the bullet leaves and so the base isn't greatly deformed.
 
These explanations make sense. What was so amazing was the perfect holes these bullets cut. I would expect the bulet to be deformed in a more asymetrical manner, but they expand very uniformly. A real puzzlement. I wish the bullets were cheaper, (3.95/50), or else I'd use them for target practice all the time.
 
Last edited:
Just had a conversation with another shooter describing a similar set of circumstances, Aguila ammo and a short barreled pistol with comparable results. Less of a keyhole effect and more a "yaw" on the bullet travel. Bullet comming off axis but not quite tumbling over...

Have you tried repeating the shot at target of varrying distances?
 
I have shot bricks upon bricks of Aguila Super-Maximum. From 24" barrels to 3" barrels and have not ever had any peculiarity other than semi-dud rounds every 3 shots. Loud! Loud! Quiet!, etc. Accuracy sucked. I really thought Aguila used Eley priming compound, but apparently not to Eley specifications.
 
Looks like I have a project for my next range trip. I have a Beretta Mod 21. I'll take it along with my 6 7/8" Mark II and see what I can see about this 'pre-expanded' ammo. ;)
 
Aguila price

I don't know where you live, USP9, but around here Aguila is a "2BAB" ammo (Around 2 Bucks A Box). Bricks sell for less than $15.00 for most flavors of Aguila.

I would not pay 4.50/50 for that ammo. Not when I can get CCI Mini-Mag for 3.99/100.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

M
  • Locked
Got out the old .22 today!
Replies
4
Views
529
JFrame
J
AzShooter1
  • Locked
Are The Problems Fixed on Walther P22?
Replies
1
Views
903
12Bravo20
12Bravo20
J
  • Locked
I picked up a Phoenix HP22 yesterday
Replies
15
Views
2K
Kiln
K
R
  • Locked
22 lr Stinger or Velocitor for Home-Defense?
2 3
Replies
54
Views
34K
shockwave
S
Pat Riot
Glock 44 repaired by Glock
Replies
9
Views
534
tarosean
tarosean
Back
Top