IMR 4166 VS Varget

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JO JO

JO JO

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IMR 4166 vs Varget for 308 LC brass , I have tried 4166 found 1 load I like but 4166 seems to have a narrow window .5gr one way or the other made a big difference on grouping, I have read the 4166 pressure spikes quickly towards or near max loads, I stayed in the middle but wondering if I should start over with Varget ?
just curious if anyone has used both to compare ?
Im loading 168 amax LC brass ,
I know Varget is very popular and a cost less then 4166
 
I never had the best of luck with Varget in .308 with LC brass. Only difference is 168 SMK's versus the amax. I have had good luck in .223 with heavier bullets. What is sweet is that Varget around her has been like a ghost in the night. Never around when you need it. Found a pound last weekend. Never used IMR4166, used IMR4895 with excellent results. AA2520 worked a little better but its a ghost powder. Others will add their experience (lots of excellent comments around here). I shoot 150 Grain FMJ's with the Ruger GSR and 168's with the Remington Milspec. Use 4895 with both.
 
thanks,
I am asking because I am planning to go to a range that I normally do not go to , They offer the use of a LabRadar even set it up for me,
wanted to take this time to test and work up some loads so far I am going to try TAC and either 4166 or Varget
I already have TAC and want to try one more and then pick the best accuracy and LabRadar numbers
 
IMR4166 is a bit faster than Varget so it's not really like Varget. Additionally, it's one if the new Enduron powders that IMR released. It's very stable and cleaner too. The copper inhibitors are also a plus.

I have never heard 4166 was known to spike pressures or any of together Enduron powders either. Where did you hear that? I would not stop my development because of a rumor. Hodgdon would not publish a charge range that was not safe. If you are not sure call or email Hodgdon and ask them. Go to the source not Internet rumor. If I were working up new loads I would stick with the newer powders so I know they will be around for a good while.
 
ArchAngelCD said:
If I were working up new loads I would stick with the newer powders so I know they will be around for a good while.
Click to expand...
Very good point , the spike pressure is just a few reviews on google fu , I understand internet rumors are just rumors but this is why I ask here on this site so many good folks and experience :)
I think there is not a lot of info out on these new powders yet and I will share my results from the labradar if I can understand how to download its info , I think the range rso will help me download it, one thing that interests me with temp stable powders is where I live winter days at the range may be mid 30's and summer days 105 F
 
According to Hodgdon/IMR their Enduron powders are made by a new cleaner process with less harmful chemicals. It's also extremely temp insensitive according to them. Everything I have heard confirms that. Still, write or call Hodgdon and ask them.

As soon as I use up my remaining 4350 I'm going to try some 4451 for my 30-06 ammo. I'm very happy with 4350 but I also know the industry is moving towards the more environmentally friendly manufacturing processes so I might as well switch over from 4350 to 4451 sooner than later.
 
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JO JO said:
thanks,
I am asking because I am planning to go to a range that I normally do not go to , They offer the use of a LabRadar even set it up for me,
wanted to take this time to test and work up some loads so far I am going to try TAC and either 4166 or Varget
I already have TAC and want to try one more and then pick the best accuracy and LabRadar numbers
Click to expand...
Can you do all three?
 
I've used Varget and Sierra 180gr Game Kings with good results near Max load. This was in Perfecta 308 win brass.

Didn't try 4166 in the 308 but works well in 223 & 243 at mid-range loads.

I have since started using H414 in 243 with 100gr bullets with very nice results.

No experience with TAC.
 
I have no experience using LC brass for .308, but have used a number of powders behind 168gr Amax, ELD and SMK. I've narrowed my powder choices down to Varget and H4895 for a number of reasons, availability being near the top of the list. Consistency over a wide range of temperatures is another as I'm often out in below freezing temps during the winter months and 90+ isn't unusual during the summer. MV over that range is very minimal with Varget and H4895 isn't far off.
It's always beneficial to have at least two loads with near identical performance. I just happened to stumble upon mine.
 
JO JO, if I could offer an alternate suggestion that you will probably find better in this application, try our AR Comp(TM). I think you will measure the lowest sd's and best temperature response from this powder in 308Win, and we have developed a load for the 168gr AMAX.
We use quite a bit of this in our Federal match and other high performance ammunition, and our ballisticians marvel at the ability to deliver low V&P sd's, even from high speed loading equipment. In the hands of an experienced handloader it can be the edge you might want.
Good luck with your load development JO JO.
Paul
 
What would you suggest min and max range ar comp and 168gr amax With LC brass ?
 
Alliant Reloading said:
I think you will measure the lowest sd's and best temperature response from this powder in 308Win, and we have developed a load for the 168gr AMAX.
Click to expand...
Sounds excellent, and would love to know the combination.

Why call it AR Comp? people are going to assume it if for .223/5.56 and may not even try it in other applications. But I guess the new trend is catchy names instead of numbers.

I still have some LT-32 and 8208 I haven't tried, so I guess I need some AR Comp to sit beside them until I get off my procrastinating hiney and test them out. I need to check the burn rate chart.

Thanks for posting Paul. :)
 
Alliant Reloading said:
View attachment 764594
This is with a Fed210 primer.
Click to expand...

How can the velocity go down when temperature is increasing? What is going on. Everything I have seen and experienced about gunpowder is that velocity and pressure go up as temperatures go up.

Why call it AR Comp? people are going to assume it if for .223/5.56 and may not even try it in other applications. But I guess the new trend is catchy names instead of numbers.
Click to expand...

I agree, with a name like that, I would not pick up a can because, I have AR15 powders I am happy with, and don't need another AR15 powder.
 
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