Jean Assam Interview A Little Disappointing

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Treo

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I just watched an interview W/ Jean Assam on Fox News tonite. I was really disappointed by it. She's been touted as the epitome of a CHP holder, private citizen who was in the right place at the right time. and she spent the ENTIRE interview re-inforcing a bunch of anti stereotypes among them:

She was repeatedly reffered to as a Security Guard and NEVER corrected it.

She reffered to the "gunmans" intermediate caliber AR as a "high powered rifle".

And had no problem stating that she identified herself as a police officer when she initially confronted the guy. ( that one I'm willing to concede probably was more due to her reverting to her training under stress) .

the one that bugs me the most was the "security guard " thing because that seems to be the misconception that gun owner groups have tried so hard to correct.
 
I'm not sure I understand. I thought she was a volunteer security guard at the church and identifies herself as such. And the AR platform is well represented at Camp Perry in the High Power Rifle class. What am I missing here?
 
she was an usher who was allowed to carry in the church. in Colorado Security Guards have some type of license. Also the "security guard" ( the word volunteer was NEVER used) moniker was seen by many gun owner groups as an attempt by the media to portray her as some type of cop .IOW person of AUTHORITY who could be trusted W/ a gun as opposed to a mere private citizen ( the kind of person the leftist media thinks shouldn't ever have a gun.

Since when did a .223 caliber /5.56 mm rifle become "high powered" ? ONE of the selling points of the AR-15 /M-16 was that it was an intermediate caliber weapon that could be fired on full auto from the shoulder W/minimal recoil. I've NEVER heard of ANY AR-15 being reffered to as a "high powered rifle".
 
She was a long time and regular member of an organized team providing security to the church. Both she, the other members of the team and the church staff referred to the members of the team as security guards. That's probably why she didn't correct people when they referred to her in the same terms she used herself.

I don't know which interview you saw but in the one I saw it was made very clear that the entire security team was composed of volunteers.

High-Powered rifle is a very generic term. Given that ARs compete in High-Powered rifle matches, it's hard to make a big case against someone referring to them in that fashion. I would have a problem with someone referring to a pistol caliber carbine or a rimfire as a high-powered rifle, but most centerfire rifles would qualify as the term is generally used, even within the firearm community.

The point of the Jeanne Assam incident proves the value of CCW holding citizens regardless of how she or others refer to her--at least it does for anyone objective enough to accept the facts. There's no need to try to play down her position on the volunteer security team or try to minimize her LE training. Those who are willing to listen will accept the facts, those who are not will not be convinced regardless.

The REAL danger here is if we try to twist the incident to make it fit what we want better. We have traditionally held the high road when it comes to remaining factual--if we try to pretend that her LE training was not an issue or try to pretend that she didn't hold an official position as part of the church's security team it's only going to backfire. And criticizing her over a minor terminology quibble is not helping anything.
 
Quote : "She was a long time and regular member of an organized team providing security to the church"

She was a Church member who went to Brady Boyd ( senior pastor) a day or so before the shooting and suggested that they increase security at the church due to a previous shooting ( by the SAME guy ) at a YWAM facility
in Denver. If I remember correctly there wasn't much ( maybe a day or two ) of a lapse between the two shootings

ETA sorry my bad I actually did read a story in a Christian news paper that recounted the above story. But I just found an article in the Rocky Mountain News that quotes Brady Boyd as saying that there had been armed security in place at New Life for a year or so because there was a concern for the safety of the former Pastor Ted Haggard ( yes THAT Ted Haggard) due to his high profile. under those circumstances she could be a security guard.
 
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Arguing over the semantics of the word security guard and how it applies to her is just letting our point get lost in philosophical babble. You can argue she wasn't an official security guard, and only a volunteer one, but anyone else can argue that a volunteer security guard is still a security guard, etc. That line of debate is irrelevant to the point I think we would like to make from this incident, that CCW has value, and can be effective in stopping mass killings. She was carrying her weapon as a private citizen, there is no debate about that. She used that weapon to stop a madman before he could claim innocent lives, there is no debate about that. That's the point we need to make, and whatever else she was doing at the Church doesn't affect that point in the least.
 
Attack Of The Semantics

The reason the whole "security guard" thing is in question has to do W/ the efforts of the media to portray Jean Assam as MORE than a private citizen. When the story first broke the went W/ the "hero" bit for about a day. The next day the media broke the story about her being fired from the ( I want to say) Detroit P.D. for lying about an altercation she had (apparently) while on duty. When that broke her Pastor backed her & told the media that the church was aware of it. She also confirmed the story & took full responsibility. So that angle kinda died. Now the media emphasizes the "cop" angle. The main complaint is that the " private citizen " aspect is getting dropped the local media tends to give the perception that she was acting in some type of law enforcement role that day. Again implying that only cops should have guns
 
A security guard has no more power than a regular citizen. I have been a security guard for over 10 years now. I have no arrest authority whatsoever, and any training I have I did on my own innitative. I don't know what the qalifications are out there for being a guard, but in KY if you have never been arrested you can be one. And that is about the only thing that would prevent you from being one here! I have worked with some real goobers. So what is the big deal anyway?
 
treo, Assam was a security guard, albeit voluntary, at a church where they had goine with armed security for several years already. From about 2:50 to 3:50 in the video, Assam and the Pastor explain that they have people of the church serving as security guards who are licensed to carry guns and that on any given Sunday, about half do so.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRcWpU4bGNc&feature=related
Note that the guards are not "hired mercenaries" as noted by the pastor, but church members. Apparently, having "hired" security guards would be a bad thing as by the pastor's reference to them as "mercenaries."

If the church had hired armed security guards, then they would have to be legally licensed as armed security guards. However, the security of the church was attended to by volunteers who had legal CCW permits to carry guns. As such, they don't fall under the guise of the same laws.

The reason the whole "security guard" thing is in question has to do W/ the efforts of the media to portray Jean Assam as MORE than a private citizen.

In many respects, she was. She had law enforcement experience with multiple departments and while she had never shot at a living person previously, she had drawn her weapon "countless" of times in the line of duty (see video, 2:40). I don't know many CCW folks who have the experience that she has had, certainly not many who are former cops who have had to draw their gun countless times in the line of duty. What normal CCW person has that sort of background?

She was a private citizen who was volunteering to provide security to the church as a guard who had law enforcement experience. She was acting in the capacity of being a security guard. What is so hard to understand about that?

The main complaint is that the " private citizen " aspect is getting dropped the local media tends to give the perception that she was acting in some type of law enforcement role that day. Again implying that only cops should have guns

I am sorry that this shooting was not by a legally armed CCW carrier, visiting the church for the first time with no affiliation with it, who was not volunteering to provide security for the church, and that she did not have considerable LEO experience so that it would be yet another shining example about how a regular CCW Jane Doe (or John Doe) can make a significant difference to the public at large. However, that isn't what went down. You are worried about semantics, but failing to understand the reality of the situation. Just because Assam was no longer a cop does not mean her experience disappeared. You want her to be called an usher who was allowed to carry in church, but note that her purpose for carry was for the protection of the church. In other words, she was serving in an armed security guard capacity under the direction of the church.

If you want to talk semantic problems, how about Assam attributing her success to God and not to herself. She believes it is proof that she was acting with divine control by God because of the firepower difference between what she had and what the gunman had. Sort of by her own admission, without God, she could not have defeated a guy with more powerful guns, as if the power of the guns is the only thing that determines the outcome of a fight. The notion that Divine intervention is required for self defense against more powerful adversaries and the notion that pistols can't beat rifles or multiple guns are pretty silly. Why she discounted her training, experience, and mindset and couched everything under the guise of God is beyond me. It is good she has faith and maybe that is how she has to couch things in order to deal with the stress of shooting another human, I don't know, but I am more inclined to believe that she performed as well as she did because she knew what she was doing.

And yes, .223 is considered high powered and is recognized by the NRA for High Powered Rifle competition via their inclusion of M16s and their equivalents for high powered matches.
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/highpower.asp
 
Just my opinion, but what I'm reading is that some CCW holder is not getting a "vicarious" pat on the back in this instance and is smarting. Seems that an ego is not being massaged and someone doesn't like it. Look up "humility" in the dictionary and see if the shoe fits on your foot.
So let's look at this situation. Some time back at that church, they decided to have some kind of "organized" security force and it would be made up of church members.(IMO-a very smart move)! For lack of a better way of identifying them to the masses of churchgoers, they were called security guards. So the church leaders told the chosen volunteers to stand and be recognized and then told the congregation that these are the people a member would need to contact if they saw or thought they saw something that might need to be brought to the attention of an authority figure.
As to giving credit to divine intervention, that is the choice of a person and America was founded on having that choice. Almost all of the Founding Fathers of our country were very steeped and strong in the belief of God and the morals that kept our society strong are based on the words of the Bible. As America continues to turn from those beliefs and morals, we will continue to see America deteriorate. I personally would not want to fly in the face of divine intervention because of many instances in my life that can't be explained any other way.
 
I Concede

WOW guys how many times do I have to say " I was wrong?"

The good thing about threads like this is that they make you check your sources. I did and I was wrong.

The interview I'm referring to was a follow up that ran on Fox 21 in Co. Springs Last night NOT the one on youtube.

As to the divine intervention thing, I am squarely in her camp on that one. I absolutly believe that God put her where she was & I believe that God also arranged things so that she stopped the threat but doesn't have to live W/ killing a man on her conscience. In the interview I saw last night she didn't discount her training but said that she was acting under Divine guidance , and that she felt that God was there W/ her and that is why she was able to be calm. I can't discount that. She also said that she originally planned to ambush the guy from a side hall way but that she felt like God directed her not to. ( presumably because she wouldn't have been able to track the guy until he was about 5 feet from her) Again I believe her

May be I'm reading something that wasn't there into the broadcast but the general tenor of the piece seems to be (to me) that she was a trained professuonal & that we, the well meaning amatuers should never attempt to defend or selves W/ a gun & I kinda got the same vibe from her. ( even though she never mentioned he traing)
 
treo said:
the one that bugs me the most was the "security guard " thing because that seems to be the misconception that gun owner groups have tried so hard to correct.
Why does that concern you? The lady has law enforcement in her background, handled the situation in as good (or better) a way than most of us could, and may have access to information that has not been let out to the public. - - Lighten up.

If you had 100% of the information that she has, you could easily go to her and ask questions, expressing your concerns. Since you do not have that much information, let her lead with what she thinks best, based on information that none of us have.

I think she's a neat lady doing the best she can. Cut her some slack.
 
I guess I don't really care too much about the story describing Assam as a "security guard."

Bottom line is that an armed citizen did the right thing, and by doing so prevented a certain tragedy.

I'd be willing to bet that the grateful people who's lives were spared by her brave actions don't care either.....
 
In that case, she was in effect a security guard.

I've NEVER heard of ANY AR-15 being reffered to as a "high powered rifle".
Odd. I've been shooting NRA High Power Rifle competitions for several years and the majority of the shooters shoot ARs. When I think 'high powered rifle', the picture tha comes to my mind is an AR.

When the media uses the term "Assault Rifle" in reference to guns used in crimes, we yell and scream that that's not the accepted use of the term. The NRA rules concerning equipment define competition-legal high powered rifles in terms that they cannot exceed .35 cal.
 
I agree that the more the "guards" at the church are cast in the light of being especially qualified somehow, the less strong our argument about ordinary citizens being armed becomes.

So be it. But what I'd like to know is what proportion of these "guards" at the church actually had some kind of special training beyond that required for obtaining a CCW or an LEO background. Were there any of them who were just ordinary Joes or Janes without "special" qualifications beyond having a CC permit?

In other words, what are the chances that any of the guards could have intervened, where there would be no escaping the fact that a private, ordinary, non-LEO armed citizen had stopped the attack?

Knowing something like that might in fact strengthen our case, from my viewpoint.
 
QUOTE: "In other words, what are the chances that any of the guards could have intervened, where there would be no escaping the fact that a private, ordinary, non-LEO armed citizen had stopped the attack?"

According to her she was in some type of central lobby area when the smoke bombs went of & she started moving towards them. it was reported by a local paper that two other guards froze under stress. She discounted that & said that they were doing their job and stated that was doing hers I don't remember the exact wording but the implication was that their job was to evacute the church while hers was to engage the threat. & that this had been planned before hand.

New Life is a huge church something like 10% of the city goes there they hire off duty cops for traffic control every Sunday, so they have real cops on scene at every service.

I AM NOW SPECULATING

Given the size of the church I would GUESS that they have quite a few cops as members

Given the fact that the security team was originally formed as a response to threats against Ted Haggard ( the word " bodyguard" was never used)

I would GUESS that they went to the member/cops first

ETA it occurred to me after I wrote this that if there truly was a plan in place where her partners did evacuation duty while she engaged the threat, then TO ME that would indicate that SHE was the only one W/ the training why else would you put two able bodied men on crowd control & send a 110 LB woman after the BG alone.

the only answer I can come up W/ is you figure she was a cop she knows what to do or B her partner really DID freeze ( sending ONE person to deal W/ an armed intruder makes no sense at all) & she's covering his back now ( which I don't see as a bad thing)
 
I agree with Buttermilk.
Also, as I grew up any rifle above the rimfires was considered a "high powered rifle."

Best,
Jerry
 
I am sorry the interview did not meet your expectations.

What do you expect from the media? The facts about a shooting incident?

By todays standard, given the attitude of the press, I am surprised they even mentions she HAD a gun!

Remember the incident at the VA Law School when two men overpowered the shooter? They had guns, but the media didn't report it.

I couldn't care less if the 5.56mm is "high powered" or if she was a "private militia", I AM JUST GLAD SHE WAS THERE!
 
Really treo? In the interview I posted above, she said she immediately sought cover and waited until the gunman cme to her. She certainly did go run outside to help her fellow church members who were being slaughtered. From the sounds of it, none of the guards did much in regard to springing into action.

AFTER the gunman approached, she revealed and identified herself, the shot and killed the gunman.

Strange how divine intervention sends the gunman to multiple religious places to kill people before God brings things to an end. What Assam attributes to God in regard to her performance is just what many trained people refer to as their training kicking in and taking over. She did have that sort of training as a professional law emforcement officer.

If you want to argue divine intervention and also the she was just a regular CCW person, then you need to drop one or the other. Regular CCW people don't don't normally have the hand of God guiding their shooting.
 
ETA it occurred to me after I wrote this that if there truly was a plan in place where her partners did evacuation duty while she engaged the threat, then TO ME that would indicate that SHE was the only one W/ the training why else would you put two able bodied men on crowd control & send a 110 LB woman after the BG alone.
I don't know about this. However I do recall seeing/hearing that she was not only a member of the security team, she was the head of it. She may have made the decisions which would account for why the plan would operate as it did, or it may have been that because of her position she felt extra responsibility to engage.
Given the fact that the security team was originally formed as a response to threats against Ted Haggard ( the word " bodyguard" was never used)
I don't recall the specific words used but I do recall either the current pastor or her stating in one interview that her normal task was providing personal security for the pastor. I assumed that meant only during the Sunday morning services but the comment was vague.
 
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