Kimber Pro Carry II "slingshot"

[JFrameTwitch]

When the mag on my pro carry II runs empty the slide locks back. A new loaded mag is inserted and I use the slingshot method to retract the slide and load the first round of the new mag. However, when performing this function, the slide lock remains in place preventing the slide from moving forward and loading the first round. The round loads fine if the slide lock is depressed manually. No other malfunctions of any kind on this new to me Kimber. Suggestions are welcome.

Thanks

 

[200Apples]

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I'd think it would be quicker to chamber a round after a mag change using your left thumb to depress the slide lock, dropping the slide as your two hands come together on the grip. Why waste time going for the rear of the slide then pulling it back in a slingshot?

 

[JFrameTwitch]

It's just what I was taught. I was taught by my brother and that is how he was taught a long time ago. Sometimes I release the slide with my thumb but that's beside the point. None of my other semi's, 1911 or otherwise have this issue so I view it as an abnormality and would like to address it if possible. Thanks

 

[200Apples]

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Well, it's hardly besides the point if you wish to be little quicker with your reloading technique... although I understand the desire to get to the bottom of the mechanical issue you perceive.

I just tried the maneuver you've described: with an empty chamber, the slide locked back and an empty mag well, I inserted a fully-loaded magazine into my Kimber Ultra CDP II and instead of thumbing the slide lock I instead grabbed the back of the slide and with the slingshot chambered a round... so, yes; there might be an issue with your rig.

 

[BBBBill]

For some reason Kimber cuts the slide stop notch longer than other makers. This means the slide has to come back further for the slide to cam the slide stop down out of engagement. Problematic if you have a shock buff. Some smiths weld up the forward face of the slide stop lug in order to provide a surface that contacts the camming surface earlier. Slide stops do vary a bit though I haven't made note of which ones have longer lugs that might work. If yours has a buff try taking it out and see if that helps.

 

[JFrameTwitch]

BBB, that's the deal. When the slide is fully rearward, the notch for the slide stop has not yet kicked the stop fully out of the notch. No shock buff on the rod. Try a different slide stop?

 

[JRadice45]

You said new to me which means used. I would replacethe recoil spring with the kimber replacement and remove the shok buff if there is one on the guide rod then try again. I have seen non kimber springs that were too long and went into coil bind before you could pull the slide back far enough to nudge the slide stop out of the way.

 

[BBBBill]

Before you spend your money on a new slide stop call some of the vendors like EGW and Wilson to ask what the length of the engagement lug is. Tell them what you want it for. Heck, EGW might even make one up for you. They custom ream barrel bushings to your spec on request. The other option is to call Kimber and ask for another slide stop. It may not/probably won't solve your problem, but you'll have an extra to experiment with. You can have someone TIG some extra material on the face of the lug and file to fit.

Kimber insists on using a spring meant for the 3-1/2" Colt OACP in their 4" guns. The in battery spring pressure is too low with that spring. It is known to cause problems. Wolff has a proper spring made for that application.
http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto Pistols/KIMBER/Compact & Pro Carry/cID1/mID32/dID413

Three other problems common to Kimbers are: the Series 80 style firing pin stop that leaves a hole that can trap/shear off the tip of the push rod that raises the firing pin lock, poorly finished barrel standing lug that develops peening from contact with the slide stop eventually resulting in failure to feed/chamber, and unfinished chambers from not using a finish reamer after boring the chamber. All easily corrected, but the guns should not have been shipped that way. EGW makes an excellent slide stop for that application. It does require fitting, but it is a simple process. http://www.egwguns.com/index.php?p=product&id=60
You don't find the last two problems on all Kimbers, but it does occur on a significant number.
Not Kimber bashing as all brands have their idiosyncrasies. Along with the slide stop/slide notch those just happen to be Kimber's issues.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Wilson flat wire spring is the best option for improving the recoil spring. The flat wire spring lives much longer than round wire springs.
http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Flat-Wire-Recoil-Spring-Kit-4-Compact-45-ACP/productinfo/651/

 

[bainter1212]

Before you spend your money on a new slide stop call some of the vendors like EGW and Wilson to ask what the length of the engagement lug is. Tell them what you want it for. Heck, EGW might even make one up for you. They custom ream barrel bushings to your spec on request. The other option is to call Kimber and ask for another slide stop. It may not/probably won't solve your problem, but you'll have an extra to experiment with. You can have someone TIG some extra material on the face of the lug and file to fit.

Kimber insists on using a spring meant for the 3-1/2" Colt OACP in their 4" guns. The in battery spring pressure is too low with that spring. It is known to cause problems. Wolff has a proper spring made for that application.
http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto Pistols/KIMBER/Compact & Pro Carry/cID1/mID32/dID413

Three other problems common to Kimbers are: the Series 80 style firing pin stop that leaves a hole that can trap/shear off the tip of the push rod that raises the firing pin lock, poorly finished barrel standing lug that develops peening from contact with the slide stop eventually resulting in failure to feed/chamber, and unfinished chambers from not using a finish reamer after boring the chamber. All easily corrected, but the guns should not have been shipped that way. EGW makes an excellent slide stop for that application. It does require fitting, but it is a simple process. http://www.egwguns.com/index.php?p=product&id=60
You don't find the last two problems on all Kimbers, but it does occur on a significant number.
Not Kimber bashing as all brands have their idiosyncrasies. Along with the slide stop/slide notch those just happen to be Kimber's issues.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Wilson flat wire spring is the best option for improving the recoil spring. The flat wire spring lives much longer than round wire springs.

I have a Pro Carry II but don't have the problem that the OP describes......but I sometimes have the failure to feed issue described. It usually is a failure to go into battery fully that is corrected by a thump to the back of the slide with the palm of my hand. It is a rare problem but annoying nonetheless.
I might try that Wolff spring out.

 

[BBBBill]

The spring may help/solve that issue. Worth the time to have the chamber checked for finish reaming/throating and lower lug checked for barrel bump at the corner while you're at it.

 

[short barrel]

Maybe an easy fix, but I had one of those models. A joy to shoot and very accurate, but function was never good. I don't think Kimbers are all they claim to be. For the money, we can do better, I think.

 

[JFrameTwitch]

Thanks BBB,

This is a family gun that has been around for a while and was given to me recently. I am not any kind of a gun smith so fitting a part will be out of my league. However, I really like this gun and if it is a simple fix, I'm willing to spend some time/money on it. I suppose I could take it to a smith but I would rather use the wealth of knowledge on this forum to see if it is something simple before wasting time and money. Your post is very detailed so I guess I am looking for step one in this diagnosis process. Is replacing the spring with this: http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%...1/mID32/dID413 a good place to start?

Thanks

 

[BBBBill]

The fix for your specific problem with slingshotting the slide is a modified or new slide stop with a longer lug.

The spring will not address the issue of slingshot failing to let the slide close. It will help feed reliability by correcting the factory error with these guns. Wolff provides the springs to Kimber and they developed the correct spring for the gun, but Kimber refuses to use it. Something about it being "easier to retract the slide." Wrong answer! Springs in short slide guns wear out much faster than full length guns and must be changed more often anyway, so changing the spring is just good maintenance and a chance to correct the factory error.
The barrel bump and firing pin stop are separate issues. Just be aware of them. Watch for any peening that might develop on the lower front corner of the lower barrel lug and use caution when disassembling/reassembling the pistol. By avoiding depressing the grip safety you will protect the tip of the push rod. Loose that and the gun won't fire. There was a thread on another forum where the fellow didn't shear it off, but actually got the tip of the rod stuck in the hole created by that incorrect firing pin stop. He couldn't go in either direction from there.

 

[JFrameTwitch]

Thanks, I ordered a couple of the wolf springs for replacement. I inspected the lugs and the part of the barrel that holds the link (what is this called?) to make sure nothing is bumping. My untrained eye tells me it all looks good. I googled "barrel bump 1911" and looked as some pictures. I don't see anything like this on the Kimber. Do you have a good picture of exactly what I should be looking for? Or, if I don't see it by now, at 700 rounds or so, do I need to worry about it? As for the push rod, I ran into this, literally, the first time I tried to reassemble. I figured out that i needed to be off the grip safety but didn't know the reason. I double checked this part and it seems to be in working order. Thanks

 

[BBBBill]

Here's an example - http://forums.1911forum.com/showpost.php?p=2793397&postcount=15
This is an actual Kimber barrel. There's more going on with this one than just barrel bump (the transverse peening/flat spots). It appears that the end mill that cut the lug profile was also broken or misaligned leaving the ridge along the outer edge of the right lug. Note that the ridge follows the contour of the lower lug all the way to where the lug intersects the barrel tube. If the ridge were not there the right lug would look just like the left lug with a small flat spot. That small flat spot doesn't look like much and they can be slight enough that they're self limiting with no further issues. However, it is wrong and should be addressed to ensure that it is not contributing to hesitation in the feeding cycle which can cause failure to feed/chamber.
Here's another - http://forums.1911forum.com/showpost.php?p=2989671&postcount=1
And another - http://forums.1911forum.com/showpost.php?p=4564391&postcount=16
Barrel bump can/will flat spot the slide stop pin, too.
In case you later decide to address the firing pin stop vs push rod issue - http://forums.1911forum.com/showpost.php?p=4473555&postcount=347
Again, to be clear, I'm not bashing Kimber. A bit frustrated with them, but overall a good gun. All manufacturers have their issues. These are just the ones that Kimber seems to cherish.