Legal definition of "stiletto", "dagger" - Texas

[DickP]

Does anyone know of any cases that might give us a clue as to what constitutes a "stiletto" under Texas law? Texas Penal Code 46.01 (6)(C) outlaws them, but doesn't define the term.

I would imagine that pointed, edge-less weapons would fall under the historical definition, but the code seems to define stilettos as a class of dagger: "'Illegal knife' means a... dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard."

It was my understanding (very possibly mistaken) that, under Texas law, a "dagger" was defined as a knife possessing, among other attributes, a two-edged blade. I thought this was a necessary (if not sufficient) condition for a knife to be an illegal "dagger" in TX. But if being a stiletto requires that it first be a dagger, and if all daggers must have two sharpened edges, wouldn't traditional, edgeless stilettos slip through the cracks!?

 

[hmphargh]

I'm probably going to be of no use to you when I say this, so here it goes. I would say that they are classifying a stiletto as a dagger (incorrectly IMO), but the writing of the law makes it illegal to have a stiletto anyway.

I am familiar with a similar definition of a dagger as a two edged blade, though I am not sure where this came from for the purposes of Texas Law. If you are asking about the intent of the law and you're not looking for a loophole to spend a few tens of thousands exploiting, I would say that they are trying to limit the carry of a knife that cannot be used as a tool, but only as a weapon. Specifically, when referring to a dagger, I would think that they are identifying knives that are used solely for stabbing, and are of no use for cutting chores, which a legal knife can do.

 

[Flintknapper]

I am not aware of any specific "case law" with respect to challenging the definition/requirements of either a dagger or stilletto. But....I think your line of reasoning attempts to "break down" the intent of the law too much.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

(6) "Illegal knife" means a:
(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half
inches;
(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab
another by being thrown;
(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk,
stilletto, and poniard;
(D) bowie knife;
(E) sword; or
(F) spear.
(7) "Knife" means any bladed hand instrument that is
capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by cutting or
stabbing a person with the instrument.

-----------------------------------------

Not to make a play on words, but I believe the thrust of law...is intended to include a Dagger/Dirk/Stilletto/Poniard or any other similar object as simply an "Illegal Knife".

Though...your question raises an interesting point, I wouldn't want to be the "test case" for it in a court of law. In the court systems...those "on the cutting edge" tend to bleed to death financially , though you might ultimately prevail.

 

[hso]

wouldn't traditional, edgeless stilettos slip through the cracks!?

Good for a pun, but bad for legal advice. An antique stiletto will be treated as a dagger regardless of the word games played.

 

[DickP]

You guys are no fun at all...

 

[hso]

Nothing "fun" about legal issues.

 

[RX-178]

Circa early 2008 when I got my Texas CHL, there WAS no legal definition of any of the prohibited knives.

Basically, if a LEO thinks your knife is prohibited, you'd be arrested, and a Judge at trial will decide whether it's actually an illegal knife or not.

 

[Effigy]

It always seemed ridiculous to me that they have these kind of restrictions on knives in states where you can conceal or open-carry a firearm. But if that's the law, you're better off following it and avoiding legal problems. A "legal" knife will serve the same purpose (and others besides) in most cases.

 

[Rexster]

Actually, there is indeed a case that became case law in Texas. I had it saved in a previous computer, which crashed for good several years ago, so I cannot cite the exact case. The blade in question was a pocket folder, with the back edge sharpened for one inch, adjacent to the tip, making for a total of two sharpened edges. An appellate court let the conviction stand. (This is how "case law" happens; an appellate court rules for or against a lower court's finding.)

 

[Rexster]

I would not try to "game" the law in Texas, by carrying an edgeless knife. The Penal Code language "including, but not limited to" should serve as a clue that any weapon designed specifically as a stabbing implement is going to be problematic.

 

[Black Toe Knives]

Dagger is a double edge knife. You can carry a single edge knife with a dull top edge that looks like a dagger.

Kinda like this.

 

[hso]

You can carry a single edge knife with a dull top edge that looks like a dagger.

You CAN, but it MAY put you in trouble with the law and it COULD put you in jail if the state laws and the state case law considers anything that looks like a dagger to be a dagger. Laws have other than logical definitions in their definitions at times.

 

[baylorattorney]

Standard definition would apply as to what constitutes a dagger, poniard, stiletto... Since the statutory definitions arent given. Webster definition or a similarly widely accepted dictionary would apply. If they vary, it would be a question of law for the judge to decide which definition is more correct.

 

[Black Toe Knives]

HSO, it really is a no win. As our friends have found out in NYC.