"modern powders and ammunition"

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labnoti

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We've all read about the miracle of the modern 9mm that happened in 2014. The encyclopedia article describes it like this, "The [FBI] report indicated that the new powders and more advanced bullet designs used in current 9mm defensive loads allowed for the caliber to deliver almost similar performance to other calibers, like the .45 ACP, and .40 S&W." The encyclopedia references a third party article which claims, "today’s 9mm ammunition is vastly superior..." and mentions the "incredible progress that has been made in ammunition technology [in the last 30 years]." A bullet point from the FBI report indicates, "Contemporary projectiles (since 2007) have dramatically increased the terminal effectiveness of many premium line law enforcement projectiles (emphasis on the 9mm Luger offerings)"

I am not interested in the caliber wars or whatever, and I don't think [9mm, .40, .45 etc.] comparisons need to be continued here. But I am interested in exactly what the dramatic gains in powder or projectile performance have been.

I'm not sure the FBI report actually made as many claims about powder as some of the re-reports did, but what great things have new powders achieved for handgun ammunition in the last 30 years? I looked at early ballistics of 9mm Luger. The mass and velocity was similar to what is published now. NATO overpressure loads have been going faster for a long time, but a lot of opinions are that the even higher +P cartridges offer a questionable advantage. Are there really powders that have made 9mm more effective in the last 30 years than it was before? How? Is there a modern miracle that gives us more velocity with less pressure and recoil?

The FBI report probably makes more claims about projectiles than powder. I remember back in 1991 when the "petal" type Black Talon jacketed hollow point was introduced, but although it looked cool, it doesn't seem to have made all other hollowpoint designs obsolete over the last 27 years. The encyclopedia has a list of "modern" hollowpoint technologies:

"Modern hollowpoint bullet designs use many different methods to provide controlled expansion, including:

  • Jackets that are thinner near the front than the rear to allow easy expansion at the beginning, then a reduced expansion rate.
  • Partitions in the middle of the bullet core to stop expansion at a given point.
  • Bonding the lead core to the copper jacket to prevent separation and fragmentation.
  • Fluted or otherwise weakened jackets to encourage expansion or fragmentation.
  • Posts in the hollow cavity to cause hydraulic expansion of the bullet in tissue. While very effective in lightly clothed targets, these bullet types tend to plug up with heavy clothing materials that results in the bullet not expanding.
  • Solid copper hollow points, which are far stronger than jacketed lead, and provide controlled, uniform expansion even at high velocities.
  • Plastic inserts in the hollow, which provide the same profile as a full-metal-jacketed round (such as the Hornady V-Max bullet). The plastic insert initiates the expansion of the bullet by being forced into the hollow cavity upon impact.
  • Plastic inserts in the hollow to provide the same profile for feeding in semiautomatic and automatic weapons as a full-metal-jacketed round but that separate on firing while in flight or in the barrel (such as the German Geco "Action Safety" 9 mm round)"
It's not clear just how many of these technologies are from the last 30 years, and how many pre-dated that. With a high-velocity round like 115 grain 9x19mm, it seems like dependable hollowpoint expansion would not be a challenge even with earlier hollowpoint designs that don't feature these kinds of tricks.

The FBI really emphasizes penetration as essential to performance, probably more so than expansion. But 9mm has always had similar sectional density with comparable .45 bullets (115 vs 185 gr, or 147 vs 230 gr.) and because of the higher velocity, penetration has been good even historically.

Again, I'm not looking to compare 9mm to other cartridges, but to pin down exactly how 9mm has improved over the last 30 years. What advances have really made a difference? If it has anything to do with bullets or powder, how can I be sure to avail myself of those technologies in reloading?
 
labnoti wrote:
It's not clear just how many of these technologies are from the last 30 years...

I don't think the 30 year figure should be taken as an absolute.

Jackets that vary in thickness along their length appeared in artillery shells during the First World War and were probably around before that. It's not the concept of the jacket varying in thickness that is new; rather it is the ability to implement it in small arms calibers at a price people were willing to pay that only came about and made such projectiles popular in recent times.

I think it likely all the other technologies listed that have now become ubiquitous have their roots in related technologies that are much older, but which were not (could not) be implemented in small arms because of market forces, manufacturer lethargy and/or technology.
 
Right, the question isn't how much of this technology is new to mankind, but specifically what technology has made the "incredible progress" or "vast superiority" in today's 9mm ammunition compared to 9mm from 1989 when the FBI abandoned it for 10mm.

I am skeptical that handgun powder has changed significantly. If the jacketed type of hollowpoints used in autos have improved, which ones are examples of incredible progress and vast superiority in achieving what the FBI determined was the most important criteria?

"Bullet selection should be determined based on penetration first, and the unexpanded diameter of the bullet second, as that is all the shooter can reliably
expect. It is essential to bear in mind that the single most critical factor remains penetration. While penetration up to 18 inches is preferable, a handgun bullet MUST reliably penetrate 12 inches of soft body tissue at a minimum, regardless of whether it expands or not. If the bullet does not reliably penetrate to these depths, it is not an effective bullet for law enforcement use."

Edit: There are two FBI reports I'm referring to, one in 1989, and the other 2014.

The 1989 FBI report seems to dismiss an overwhelming significance to hollowpoints, claiming they only expand 60-70% of the time anyway, and gives the greatest significance to penetration, and second to unexpanded bullet diameter.

The 2014 report cites the '89 report, but doesn't appear to claim big advances in 9mm technology at all. Instead it cites the, "advantage of the new technologies which are being applied to 9mm Luger projectiles," without specifying them. It goes on to claim 9mm-equipped personnel have, " ...the best chance of surviving a deadly force encounter since they can expect faster and more accurate shot strings, higher magazine capacities (similar sized weapons) and all of the terminal performance which can be expected from any law enforcement caliber projectile."

It seems more like they've just reverted to the higher-capacity and lower-recoil argument, while asserting without evidence that 9mm terminal performance is not inferior. (I'm not disputing that, it just seems like the report doesn't actually prove 9mm is no longer inferior, or if it ever was inferior in the past).
 
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The FBI will say what ever it needs to say when ever it suits them. I maybe wrong, but I put more faith in half inebriated, gun-zine writers talk, at the bar.

What ever mystery advancement that was made to the nine, was also made to any other self defense pistol caliber.

They wanted to move to the nine, that's fine. They don't need to lie about it, then, again, we are talking about the Government...
 
Powder, maybe, but very minor,
JHPs are better now.


Not saying anything bad about their decision to go to 9mm,

Maybe they were looking for something with higher capacity because they determined it takes x shots fired under stress to get y hits, or were looking for a reduction in recoil because they determined the average employee is more accurate/comfortable/confident with it.
These may have been considerations.


I happen to like 9mm, I could choose it or a .357 or a .45 (or buy something else)to keep by my nightstand but I am faster shot to shot with the 9 and it holds more ammo,
a trade off I am willing to sacrifice some power for.
If I can't stop it with a 9mm it's time to retreat if possible and get something bigger-rifle/shotgun

it seems like dependable hollowpoint expansion would not be a challenge even with earlier hollowpoint designs that don't feature these kinds of tricks.

Tricks help.
If you look at some test results a couple layers of denim can make a huge difference in HP pistol bullet performance even with todays ammo. All HPs are not created equal.
Some designs plug and fail to expand almost always, some can handle it and preform well.

Police have other requirements that are a concern like windshields, car doors, barrier penetration etc that may not be a concern to most private citizens.
I don't see handgun bullet performance against windshields as something that concerns me a lot, but I can see for them it is probably very important, new 9mm bullets may handle these requirements better when in the past it took "more gun"

Life is a choice of compromises, what is the best compromise may change.
 
Its easy to explain. There is 25 years difference in the two studies so different people did it. If you had 2 different groups of people do the study at the same time your likely to get different results, let alone 25 years apart.
 
The FBI needed to justify going back to 9mm so they developed a report explaining why it was good. Kind of like when you want a new car and even though there is nothing wrong with your current car, you can convince yourself you really need the new one. The same developments in bullet technology that have made the 9mm better have also made the other calibers better. Its not like Federal/Winchester/Hornady or whoever is only using their latest bullet design in 9mm and at still using the 30 year old design for their 45s
 
I’ll take a cast lead bullet over the latest and greatest jacketed hollow points. Penetration and wound Chanel is king and always will be.
 
Shooting the Bull Ammo Quest has some good results showing the difference some denim makes.
 
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