Most common caliber for police duty handguns?

[AStone]

Nematocyst, I was wondering when you would get around to it...

Just checking my choice of handguns, Shooter, making sure I've got all the bases covered.

The 9mm is enough to get the job done. Many calibers, and pistols, are enough to get the job done, if you can get the job done.

Of course, I agree with you whole-heartedly, and tell myself that even when doubt rears its ugly head.

But, in my book, it's better to raise the question and feel good about the answer than not to raise the question and pay the price.

... equipment needs to be used to have any effect. If you can not use a particular piece of equipment, no matter how good it is, it does you no good. Learning how to use any piece of equipment is very important, the more skill you have the more you can do with it.

Sage advice. Thanks for the reminder.
_________

Say, how are things down there in my former domicile state? I hear the pinyon forests are dying off from beetle infestation. That's a shame. Climate change and all, eh?

Hopefully, the chiles will just keep getting better.

I miss green chiles more than I can tell you.

Nem

 

[AStone]

While the .40 and even the .45 caliber handguns have "caught on" in the USA, world-wide it's the 9mm for police work. Also, if you consider the fact that military police are still issued 9mm pistols, that's a BIG chunk that has to be added in.

<snip>

Then, you have to toss in that many police agencies throughout the world are not only issuing 9mm pistols to personnel, they're also issuing "sub-guns" that are of the 9mm variety.

I can't give you any documented proof, but the .40 and .45 pistols don't even come CLOSE to how many 9mm pistols are being used in the world-wide community of law enforcement.

Excellent points, Oldtimer. Thanks.

Good food for thought.

Still love my 9.

Nem

 

[Ala Dan]

Here in Bama'Land, the .40 caliber rules; but then again if given the
opportunity to choose most LEO's opt for the .45 ACP.

 

[NMshooter]

Everyone misses green chile when they leave!

If the forests were managed with a sensible logging program that continuously cut down dead and dying trees we would not have forests with half the trees dead firewood waiting for the nest spark...

Instead we have nutcases and bureaucrats who burn down huge swaths of public and private land in "controlled" burns...

Sometimes it suprises me that Bueno, Hatch, and the other major producers have not made more effort to sell outside the state.

You should be able to make a few clicks and order a case of chile just like cases of ammo.

Hmmm, web based business called chileman...

 

[AStone]

a brief digression into chiledom

At the risk of derailing the thread (to other posters...please pardon this brief digression from caliber conversations.)

Everyone misses green chile when they leave!

I can't cite any papers, but I've been told by knowledgable biologists that the active ingredient in the 'hot' - capsin, i think it's called - is physically addictive.

If the forests were managed with a sensible logging program that continuously cut down dead and dying trees we would not have forests with half the trees dead firewood waiting for the nest spark...

Instead we have nutcases and bureaucrats who burn down huge swaths of public and private land in "controlled" burns...

As interesting as the topic is to me, I'm going to let a conversation about bark beetle infestations, forest management & climate change slide for now. That would take us too far off track. Maybe another day, perhaps over in the hunting subforum?

You should be able to make a few clicks and order a case of chile just like cases of ammo.

I'm sure I could do that. I really should check into it. I've been jonesing for some good modertately hot Hatch green for a long time... <drools uncontrolably>

I have a 24' cargo trailer. Until diesel prices went through the roof, I literally considered driving down to pick up a trailer load.

Hmmm, web based business called chileman...

Here's your chance to make millions.

{{We now return you to the originally scheduled thread, already in progress...}}

 

[isp2605]

I think the 9mm is still the most common, mainly because police departments can get free military purchase ammo through the LEAA.
Jim

Sorry, no. The LEAA was abolished in 1982. There is nothing in its place to give any ammo to any LEA.

The 5 largest PDs in the US are still issuing or only authorizing 9mm. The last stats I have from DOJ are from 2000. NYPD has over 40,000 sworn officers. Chicago PD has over 13,000 sworn. LAPD about 9000. LASO about 8500. Philadelphia 7000. Those agencies either mandate or issue 9mm.
Check out http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/lemas00.pdf (That link ought to keep anyone busy for a while. There's all kind of info in that document.)
It tells which calibers are authorized for primary and backup for agencies in the US.
The .40 has a large following and a lot of agencies are carrying it, mine included. But just the top 5 largest agencies are over 80,000 cops. In 2000 there were about 800,000 officers in the US in almost 18,000 agencies. The 5 largest agencies made up about 10% the total amount of cops. It takes a lot of 5 person agencies carrying anything else to even equal the total top 5.

 

[John C]

N-870:

To answer your followon question as to why PDs have been switching to .40 in large numbers in the last few years, you only have to look as far as city politics.

The Police Officers' Association goes to the Chief and says they want new guns.

The Chief goes to the Mayor and says he wants new guns. The Mayor says "We JUST bought you new guns 15 years ago!" To which the Chief has to come up with an argument to get new guns. It's either 1) our guns are worn out, or 2) we need bigger guns, we want to go .40, or 3) both.

I agree that the .40 has better terminal ballistics, but like everything in politics, reality has little to do with decision-making.

I'm a reserve officer in a large city PD, and we issue 9mm Sigs. I have the choice to carry anything from a reasonably large list of quality .38 spl, .357 Mag, 9mm, .40, and .45. "Grandfathered" officers can carry .41 and .44 Mag. 1911's are authorized upon completion of a special class. There's one officer who still carries the .44, a six inch stainless S&W. I carry a Glock 17.

I think your choice of a 9mm is a good one, based solely on price of ammunition. The difference in terminal performance is quite small with quality ammo, and the advantage to being able to practice with Winchester White box makes up for any difference, and then some. Furthur, .40 is VERY difficult to shoot in small, lightweight pistols. 9mm is better suited to the Kahr platform.

-John

 

[el44vaquero]

.40 S&W mostly around these parts of the country

did carry the wonder nine for a while

 

[AStone]

ISP, interesting data. Thanks for providing that. Nice to know that so many PD's still use the 9. That tells me something.

John, I appreciate your perspective, also. Good point about ammo price. I've also repeatedly thought about the availability of 9mm, especially if (when?) times get hard.

Hadn't thought much about the .40's being difficult to shoot in a smaller gun, but it makes sense. I'm a smaller person (tall, but thin), so it could have been a challenge for me.

As is, I like my 9 a lot. I find shooting it very comfortable (up to about 250 rounds, then my wrist starts noticing the twist) & controllable.

Thanks for the reenforcment.

Nem

 

[Sean85746]

According to Massad Ayoob, the Glock 22 in .40S&W is issued or approved by over 70% of American police departments.

So, I'd have to guess it is the .40S&W.

 

[jc2]

According to Massad Ayoob, the Glock 22 in .40S&W is issued or approved by over 70% of American police departments.

So, I'd have to guess it is the .40S&W.

Either Mas Ayoob is giving out bad data (which would be no surprise), or you are misunderstanding/misquoting him.

Glock PR makes a doubtful (unsupported) claim to be issued or approved (and there is a big difference between being issued and being approved) by sixty something percent of American LEAs, but that is for ALL models/calibres--not just the G22. Don't forget there are a little over 30,000 G19s being carried in the NYPD alone. It takes a whole lot of two or three man local PDs issuing/approving the G22 to even begin to approach that number.

 

[IlikeSA]

Our PD (450 men) issues S&W 4586 and the SO (400 men) Glock 21's. The surrounding areas have moved to .40 S&W, usually in a Glock platform.

 

[Jeff22]

most common caliber in police service?

It seems that the .40 S&W is the most common caliber for new purchases of police handguns, and the Glock 22 the most common single model.

(My agency issues the Sig 226R-DAK in .40. Most police agencies in my area authorize various models of Glock pistols, in 9mm, .40 or .45. In my immediate area, most agencies DO NOT issue sidearms, but have officers purchase them off the "approved" list, which is usually limited to a single manufacturer)

And in response to an earlier post, NOas a matter of fact, the LEAA doesn't give out free pistol ammunition to police departments. The LEAA, or Law Enforcement Assistance Administration, was eliminated in 1977by the Carter Administration! (Try doing a web search for LEAA and let me know how it turns out . . . )

Police agencies can get generic ball training ammo for very cheap, depending on the quantity ordered. In my state (Wisconsin), the state actually negotiates a contract for practice and service ammo and municipalities and county sheriff's departments can order off that bid if they so choose.

Buying ammo off the state bid damaged the business of my local commercial reloader, but he does a big business with agencies in eastern Iowa and all over Illinois. Most of his customers now order .40 and .45 ACP, in that order. Demand for 9mm has dropped right off, except for sales to a few gun shops and sportsman's clubs. (Of course, WW 9mm ball at WalMart is only about $12 a hundred, and it's hard to reload for cheaper than that . . . )

 

[mindpilot]

From what I have seen in the bigger cities in MN its always .40 and thats issued. Most LEO's I know want to carry .45

 

[JohnKSa]

Glock PR makes a doubtful (unsupported) claim to be issued or approved (and there is a big difference between being issued and being approved) by sixty something percent of American LEAs..

So, what is the actual number, and how did you obtain it?

 

[chrisTx]

40 is by far the most popular around here as far as issue guns are concerned. when you see personally owned weapons, they tend to be 9mm or primarily 45. many of my colleagues and i are still trying to find out where the need for .40 originated.

 

[gen]

40 is by far the most popular around here as far as issue guns are concerned. when you see personally owned weapons, they tend to be 9mm or primarily 45. many of my colleagues and i are still trying to find out where the need for .40 originated.

Derived from the FBI whimps not liking the recoil of the 10mm which created the .40 SW which is essentially 10mm's short a wimpy cousin

I prefer the .40 over the 9mm and .45 personally, people have different preferences... I think the .40 is a fantastic caliber.

 

[ShelbyV8]

Did you notice that the large city PD's that use 9mm are the same places that have strict gun control. Since they have gun control then no one has guns and there is no crime, it is a wonder the LEO's even get guns at all.

 

[chrisTx]

Did you notice that the large city PD's that use 9mm are the same places that have strict gun control. Since they have gun control then no one has guns and there is no crime, it is a wonder the LEO's even get guns at all.

my old chief said 'if she had her way, cops wouldn't be allowed to carry off-duty.' we carried 1911 .45s.

 

[m39fan]

FWIW, 90+% of the guys I see going through ILEA (Indiana Law Enforcement Academy) are using .40 S&W. I am not aware of any department using a 9mm in our area but I'm not up on the latest IPD weapons. Marion/Morgan/Johnson county rank and file officers are all .40, from what I've seen, as are most of the small "Town Marshall" departments. The one exception to this rule, wierdly enough, is the Morgan County ERT guys, who use 9mm's.

There is some renewed interest in .45 ACP as the perception is that it hits harder and is easier for most officers to shoot. I won't express an opinion on the first thought but the second echos my experience i.e. new shooters seem to do better with the .45 as the recoil pulse is more gradual. Many have said after an introductory range session that they liked the .45 and would purchase one. Many seem to not like the .40 but are required to go with it. As one student put it "the .45 was somewhat fun but the .40 is like having a hand grenade go off in your hand".

YMMV,
Mike