MSNBC and the North Hollywood Shootout

Status
Not open for further replies.
E

Erebus

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
1,374
Location
North Central MA
I was watching MSNBC Investigates last night or the night before and was surprised that they said that the shooters were using armor piercing bullets. They specifically said they were the steel core bullets. How come I haven't heard this before in the multitude of specials I have seen on this incident? Also I though the dreaded "cop killer" bullets had never been fired at LEOs ever?
 
There's no such thing as "Cop Killer Bullets". It's a catchy phrase made up to involve your emotions instead of your brain.

The steel core does not constitute AP. The BGs AKs were probably using Chicom ammo. Chinese AK ammunition had steel cores as a cost saving measure rather than one to increase the penetration. Additionally, mild steel is not sufficiently hard to grant unusual armor penetrating capability . Despite this the ammunition is classified as a "armor piercing handgun round" under the ATF definition of the word, which is based on materials and bullet design rather than on tested ability to penetrate armor.

Both are propaganda.
 
Joseph Goebbels is not dead! He has a lot of admirers and followers disgustingly a lot of them US Americans.

"A lie, repeated often enough becomes the truth..."

George Orwell was a prophet.
 
MSNBC Investigates

I've seen that documentary before. It is just another anti statement to rile emotions. I goes with the comment about the AK-47's being battlefield weapons and not meant for civilian hands.

ProguninTN
 
about the AK-47's being battlefield weapons and not meant for civilian hands.
Click to expand...

Once the "other side" folks are throwing lead at me, then I AM on the battlefield...and I will use whatever I have at hand.
 
If I recall correctly the police were only able to eventually take down the robbers after a gun store loaned them some civilian legal AR-15 rifles. If the ban was in effect I guess the bad guys would have just stomped a mudhole in the PD and then gotten away with the money.
 
Actually the borrowed weapons did not reach the scene in time to assist. It was stopped by SWAT officers.

And all bullets that kill cops are "Cop Killer Bullets" there are just none designed specifically for the job.
 
They specifically said they were the steel core bullets.
Click to expand...

When Wolf ammo was first being imported, didn't Clinton ban it because it was steel core? And steel core bullets supposedly will penetrate body armor?

And IIRC, one of the bad guys had installed the full auto parts kit in his AK, which is where his weapon came from. Wasn't he the one that, after the cops shot, his family tried to sue because they said their beloved brother/father/son/nephew (who would never hurt anybody/always seemed like a good boy) didn't receive medical care soon enough?
 
I would think just about any rifle caliber would be called "cop killer" if the chance presented itself. Seeing as how most will defeat kevlar they will be referred to as such.
 
I have had this discussion before regarding Armor Piercing ammo. It seems like playing word games but just about all common rifle ammunition (FMJ, soft point etc) is capable of defeating vests worn by cops. Other than the level III stuff with plates and all that. Beat cops don't wear that level.
There is a big difference of ammo that will go through a vest and real Armor piercing ammo. Just because it can go through a vest does NOT make it armor piercing. I know it sounds weird but that is the real basics of it.
 
#1: MSNBC is "dead in the water" as far as NEW reporting is concerned. They are RE-running RE-plays of "investigative reports" that were filmed as far back as 10 years! Even when those "investigative reports" were new, they were often quite slanted....but that is not NEW to MSNBC!

#2: Hysteria-based usage of the term "cop-killer bullets"! Hey, if the anti-gun folks could come up with convincing "facts" about, say, the .22LR round being able to kill effectively, then ALL ammo would be classified as "cop-killer". (Don't tell them that ALL calibers, even the "puny" .22LR, are "deadly"!)

#3: As I recall, there was a total of either 9 or 10 police officers who were wounded during the North Hollywood bank robbery incident. None of them were wounded by "friendly fire", as far as I know, so that means that the suspects, firing their supposed "cop-killer" rounds were the culprits. Count up the tally: 2 deceased bad guys, 0 deceased police officers or innocent citizens. (Add to that, the police weren't armed with "cop-killer" bullets).

#4: The suspects were all "hyped-up" on pain killers prior to the shoot-out. They were out-numbered by the "cavalry" who, for the most part, were armed with 9mm handguns. A few shotgun pellets struck the suspects, but most of the fatal wounds were caused by handgun rounds....including the self-inflicted handgun "suicide" by one of the suspects. SWAT was "there", but not as effective as one might believe, for their presence was at the ending point of the shoot-out. I don't believe that any SWAT marksmen fired any rifle rounds. The "borrowed" weapons from B & B gun sales were NOT used during the shoot-out.

#5: The North Hollywood shoot-out was a "debacle"! Had another police agency been more diligent with a previous arrest of both suspects, that bank robbery might not have taken place! Both suspects had been taken into custody on weapons charges and "suspicion" charges prior to the shoot-out, but they were release due to "insufficient evidence", and their LEGAL firearms were returned to them.

6: The movie "Heat" was supposedly used as some sort of "training movie" for the suspects. What the suspects DIDN'T pay attention to, however, was the END RESULTS of that movie! Crime does NOT pay, unless you do it in a "White collar" way! Even then, there have been numerous "white collar" crooks that have been sent to prison!

MSNBC seems to be "destined" for failure! Their "investigative reports" are about as interesting as watching paint dry! I don't CARE to see how "abused" criminals in prison are! Who cares to watch re-runs of slanted "investigative reports" that weren't worth watching when they were "news"?
 
Add to all the above the fact that the doers supposed 'armor piercing' rounds could not penetrate the white vehicle in the last few seconds shootout to reach the poorly concealed cops. It can be seen bouncing off the windscreen. That wasn't really AP ammo, despite having hard cores.
 
#3: As I recall, there was a total of either 9 or 10 police officers who were wounded during the North Hollywood bank robbery incident. None of them were wounded by "friendly fire", as far as I know, so that means that the suspects, firing their supposed "cop-killer" rounds were the culprits. Count up the tally: 2 deceased bad guys, 0 deceased police officers or innocent citizens. (Add to that, the police weren't armed with "cop-killer" bullets).
Click to expand...
Had the robbers had a better plan 'B', had not been drugged up, and had some friends across the street on the roof tops with rifles, the L.A. County Coroner would have been a very busy fellow.

Pilgrim
 
Oh as a follow up on the Hollywood shootings , the dealer did NOT loan the weapons to the police . He actually made them purchase them with one of the officers credit card before he would let them leave the premises because he was afraid of having issues with BATF . This is a fact that was verified in a FFL dealer news lettter that was circulated around and on display at my favorite local gunshop
 
"Cop Killer" rounds/media reports/LEO deaths

To my understanding no sworn LEO in the US as ever been shot with "cop killer" type rounds. This includes the KTM loads and other bullets designed to go through common body armor designs.

The major media in the US has blown this topic way out of line. I wouldn't know who would make or sell ammo in the USA designed to "kill" LEOs or military troops.

Powerful ammo is available to the general public in the US but it's the criminals who misuse it not the lawfully armed citizens who obey all local/state/federal laws.

Rusty
 
I saw that documentary today. It said that the bad guys had body armor from their neck down to their feet. I had also heard that it was home made. Does anybody know how they made it? I would be very surprised if it was home made because of it's effectiveness. What was it made out of?
 
I would be very surprised if it was home made because of it's effectiveness. What was it made out of?
Click to expand...

Without getting into to much detail. Its not hard to make and its not expensive to buy kevlar.

JOe
 
Media hyped it up like its a superduper ammo of some sort. The VC were using those in Nam as they were well supplied by China .
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

J
  • Locked
Armor piercing ammo in the North Hollywood shootout
Replies
17
Views
3K
lysander
L
S
  • Locked
"CSI" surprise
Replies
20
Views
2K
carebear
C
T
  • Locked
North Hollywood Bank Robbery Shootout
2 3 4
Replies
78
Views
5K
coylh
C
A
  • Locked
Radio Shootout Report
Replies
1
Views
564
Mikul
M
B
  • Locked
Test video - Black Talon armor piercing cop killer
Replies
4
Views
988
Frank Ettin
Frank Ettin
Back
Top