My Winchester Model 43 is Back in Action! (218 Bee)

[CAR-AR]

I don't know what happened to my other post but here is the new post. After trying to dislodge the remnants of the brass I chased down a great gunsmith who removed the brass in the chamber. The gunsmith also noticed that my reloads were a little hot (the fired primers were pushing a bit out of the case). The load I using was was 10 grains of 2400 with a 45 gr bullet which was a little hot. The new load will be 11gr of IMR-4227 or 13gr IMR-4198 with the same bullets. I think that should work better.

 

[cpt-t]

Win Model 43 218 Bee

CAR-AR: I am glad you your 218 BEE up and running again. How long have you had your rifle. I bought mine used in 1963 and have shot it alot and carried it many miles. I still hunt with it Quite a bit. I reloaded with the Win 46gr HP bullet & the Rem 45gr HP bullet for many years with IMR 4227 powder. But a few years back I tried Hornadays 35gr V-MAX bullet`s, and that bullet shoots better than anything, I have ever shot in my rifle. Hornady also is making a 45gr HP/BEE bullet that shoots very well in my rifle. But not like the 35 gr V-MAX, you might want to give them a try. What do you hunt with your 218 BEE. I have shot a pickup truck load of PD`S, Jackrabbits, Ground Hogs and few Coyotes with mine. I am glad you got your rifle fixed. GOOD LUCK TO YOU: ken

 

[JLDickmon]

you're still going to be too hot..
Hodgdon lists 10.5 gr as max with that bullet..

Start at 9.0 and work up..

 

[rcmodel]

The load I using was was 10 grains of 2400 with a 45 gr bullet which was a little hot.

That load is not a little hot.
It is below the recommended starting load in Lyman #49. (10.5 Start- 12.0 MAX)

I'm running 11.5 grains 2400 with a 45 grain Hornady in my Browning Model 65 with no pressure signs at all..


BTW: Protruding or backed out primers are a low-pressure sign, not a high-pressure sign.

It is also saying you have excess headspace, and the primer is backing out to fit it.
Then your low pressure load is not slipping the case back enough to reseat the primer again.
(Also indicating a rough chamber which is gripping the case and causing it to stretch so far it breaks)

Thats why it is breaking cases.
Surprised your "great gunsmith" didn't know that!

rc

 

[CAR-AR]

RC,

You are right about the rough chamber but I was in a hurry last night on my post. My gunsmith told me that he has corrected the head space but he also said that this is an old gun and and there is no guarantee that this firearm could fail in time so I need to watch the operation of the firearm and monitor the fired cases.

 

[osprey176]

Glad to hear about another fan of the little .218.I shoot a Martini Cadet custom rifle in the Bee.I use 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips over 12.5 grains of 2400.It is a maximum load,but shoots very well in my rifle.With its 26" barrel,I'm getting right at 3000 fps.Great fun on prairie dogs!

 

[CAR-AR]

I went to the range today to try out a 13gr IMR-4198 load with a 45 gr bullet. So far the cleanup work on the chamber seems to be working. The primers are still seated and the cases show a lot less scratches from before the work . I only had 10 test rounds so I need get back to reloading.

 

[GooseGestapo]

RC was right.
But, the problem didn't lie with the rifle. It's your loading technique that is causing the problem.
I see the same thing with many .30/30's.

You are over sizing the fired cases. YOU are inducing the excessive headspace by pushing the neck back when you size the cases. When you do fire a factory equivalent load, you are stretching the case when it is forced back against the bolt face. Fortunately, you've been loading very light and the primer is backing out, but the chamber pressure isn't heavy enough to stretch the case back which also reseats the primer....

If you keep it up, you are GUARENTEED to have more case head seperations. I'd suggest the following process, or buy/make your own broken shell extractor.....

I'm a great fan of the .22Hornet.... And it will do the same thing if cases are over-sized. The only "broken case" seperation I've ever had was with the Hornet. But, then again, it was some 40yr old brass that had the incipient case head "bright ring", and I had relegated it to "mouse fart" cast bullet loads with 1.8gr of Bullseye for .22lr sub-sonic duplication loads.

But, I get better accuracy if I reduce the case head area to remove the out-of-roundness of my fired brass due to a sloppy cut chamber (Ruger... go figure!! Third one I've had with same problem....).

Size cases just to "touch" the shoulder of the case with the die.... This is called "partial full-length sizing"...
I too have gotten excellent accuracy from the 35gr Hornady's as well as some 33gr "Blem" Remington Accu-tips (Green tip V-max's for .22wrm....). I load them over a similar charge of #2400 for around 3,000fps. Pressure is low even in the Hornet....
You really must try Hod. Lil'Gun. It's amazing in the Hornet and Bee !!!

 

[CAR-AR]

Good info!

 

[CAR-AR]

GooseGestapo, I have a question

"Size cases just to "touch" the shoulder of the case with the die.... This is called "partial full-length sizing"...

How do you determine what a "touch" is for the Bee?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Cleftwynd]

Data from Speer #14 says with a 45 grain and 2400 powder to start at 7.5 and 8.3 MAX.

Data from Lee Second Edition says with a 45 grain and 2400 powder to start at 7.3 and 8.3 MAX.

Don't know if that helps, I can look up in a few more manuals if it would help, those two were just closer to me, as I am still unpacking in my new room.

 

[rcmodel]

How do you determine what a "touch" is for the Bee?

Back the die out some.

Then color a fired case with a magic marker, or dry erase marker, or smoke it with a candle flame.

Then start adjusting the die down a little at a time while noting where it stops rubbing off the color.

Stop and lock the sizing die down just when it kisses the shoulder.

rc

 

[CAR-AR]

Thanks rc!

 

[mbopp]

I have a 218 Bee 14" barrel for my T/C Contender. I'd have to look at my notes, but I'm using 13gr or so of I4198 and a Sierra 45gr bullet. I wanted to try 2400 or I4227 but this combination gets me 5 shots under an inch at 100 yards. CCI BR primers tighten it up to 3/4."
I had the I4198 for my 357 Herrett barrel. It just saves me from having another powder on the shelf.
I partial size the cases so it's a bit of a "snap" to close the Contender, same for my Herrett cases.

 

[witchhunter]

My Model 43 shoots well with 12.0 of IMR4227 behind a 45 gr. Winchester hornet bullet at around 2800 fps. I am not saying that yours will. I am going to try some 35 gr. Vmax though after reading this! I agree that you should only partially size or neck size cases for any bolt rifle. That sounds like it should solve your problem. Let us know how this works for you.