Need your advice and view on a hard decision

[grampajack]

Yeah, you may be right, I'll need to check further... if there is not that much hassle in getting a "permit" to stay permanently and work there the only problem would be finding a job. Switzerland has one of the highest living standards in Europe so this could be a nice place to evolve in.



Thank you for the precise description of the situation, I really appreciate it. I'll definitely look into some American shows, etc.

Is level 5 the highest attainable?

On that scale, yes. I believe it allows for an accent, but it's native speaker level in every other respect. That scale is used by the government, or at least it was at one time. I'm not sure what scale employers use, but there are several. I would suggest finding out what the gold standard is in corporate America for language testing and go ahead and get tested. That way they can see from your resume right up front that language isn't going to be a problem. The real test though is your first interview. It will likely be on the phone, or perhaps over Skype (the wonders of technology), so discerning intonation is going to be vital. Phone conversations are always a minefield, even for native speakers, because you don't have body language to help you.

I would also encourage you to rethink your motivation for doing this. Stop thinking of yourself as a refugee, and start thinking about this more as an opportunity to advance in the world, to get a job making more money in a stronger economy. If that has the added side effect of putting you somewhere you feel safer then so be it.

Can I ask you something, though. What is your primary motive here? It kind of seems to me that you simply have your heart set on coming to America, and that this is more or less an excuse to facilitate that end. I mean, there are better places to get out of geopolitical dodge, like New Zealand for example. If coming to America is your dream, you don't need an excuse. Or if God has put it in your heart to come here then no further explanation or rationalization is necessary.

 

[Art Eatman]

I'm sort of a news and information junkie. I read a lot of foreign news sources, to try to gain some understanding of other nations' goals, problems and methods. My opinions come from more than just one source, and usually after time has passed and other sources have offered their own versions of "truth". Doesn't make me a guru, but no one source causes an opinion.

I said in 1992 that NATO was no longer worth the money. The USSR's goals were lost. So, nine years of misery before the present ongoing rebuilding of a reasonable economy. Regardless of one's opinion of Putin, I don't believe he wants physical expansion of Russia and serious economic domination except where there is an Islamic threat--as in the southern underbelly of Russia.

Looks to me that he can get all he needs from the Baltic countries by normal commerce. Actual invasion looks to me to be pointless, from the standpoint of "the good of the Rodina". It's less about what they could do than it is about "Why bother?"

Right, wrong or indifferent, it seems to me that much of this "Fear Russia!" has resulted from propaganda promulgated by the NeoCons who have dominated US foreign policy for way too long. Those who doubt this can easily look up "Wolfowitz Doctrine" on their own and see if it's still in place.

Seems to me that the biggest danger to the Baltic countries is NATO biting off more than it can chew.

I guess my "sort of" answer is to stay home but don't reside near a NATO base.

 

[Trent]

It sounds like you want to stick around and be part of the resistance if the Russians try to annex Latvia again.

You're young. It's your homeland, and you probably feel honor bound by patriotism to do so.

With how the Soviets treated Latvia the last go around, rounding up tens of thousands, to send to Gulags in Siberia, to put down the resistance last time, there's undoubtedly some old stories which are very frightening.

This leaves you torn and conflicted between what you view as your "duty" and fear over what would happen to your family.

I know Jeff said to not get in to politics - and I will try to avoid this, but let's look at this tangent and assume Russia re-integrates Latvia to bring the 15% or so "non-citizens" you have, back in to their "loving care", where does that leave you? You aren't going to fight Mother Russia with a .357 handgun out in the woods. Well, you might, but it won't last long. Americans tend to believe that all you need is a rifle and a strong will, and you'll prevail against any odds.

But in America we have 300 million people, and even more guns than we have people, in private hands. Any occupying force would have "half globe" long supply lines to contend with. So here, it might be true. Rednecks with rifles would prevail even if our military was left in ruins.

But Latvia lacks the manpower and armament to be more than a tickle in the underbelly of Russia, who wouldn't have to contend with long supply lines, but rather, very very short ones, especially given that they'd be occupying a country where (just a short time before; e.g. currently) some 15% of the population weren't even considered "citizens" because they didn't have true Latvian heritage, but were instead descended from Russian blood lines.

Think about that. Right from the onset, 30% (give or take) of your population would be very much in line with Russia re-integration as ethnic Russians, and half of those (15%) would be very much in line because they aren't even citizens and don't even get to vote today! You've got a second class citizenry.

To the US folks, where minorities, women, everyone gets a vote (even dead people and illegal aliens in certain jurisdictions ), the thought of having a subjugated class without a say in anything is somewhat appalling.

The ethical merit of such a debate is only tangential, but it does bear weight in this discussion of revolutionary partisan - at least 30% of your country, from the very onset, is going to rapidly become "the enemy" in that they support the new Mother Russia overseers.

That is a *LOT* of eyes on everything. If the sheer weight of Russia's military might and the closeness (proximity) to Russia proper with the short supply lines weren't enough of a factor, that's the nail in the coffin of any potential resistance movement.

My advise is to get the thoughts of "glorious resistance" right out of your head, and quick, because any resistance in Latvia, with the sheer number of ethnic Russians and subjugated class, will be quashed before it's even born, and membership in an active resistance cell will be a very short lived and bloody experience.

And even if it's not? Even if organization is made so that you are able to take action? You'd be shooting your neighbors, fellow countrymen, those 30% ethnic russians, 50% of which are subjugated and currently non-citizens, many of whom who would be very supporting of a regime change.

That's a tough pill to swallow.

Regarding thoughts of emigration to another country, there's a lot of potentials. The good old USA is .. maybe not the best choice, for numerous reasons. Business is cutthroat here, highly competitive. Things are not easy even if you are brilliant in your career. We've offshored a massive amount of our labor and the remaining white collar jobs are incredibly competitive. High unemployment for so long has changed the feeling of the workplace.

Plus, you'd be cut to death by 1,001 taxes. It's hard to get ahead here. Hell, it's hard to keep your head above water, here!

I'd leave every option on the table, you have time to choose a more suitable home for your future generations of offspring. There's plenty of good choices out there which would be easier on you and your family, that wouldn't set you back so far.

 

[grampajack]

I think you would definitely be wise to stay far away from any militias or political affiliations that would make you a target during a Russian occupation. There is no good guy in this "conflict." On the West side you have Soros type globalists who want global domination at all costs, and on the East you have Putin who wants to rebuild the USSR's sphere of influence under a nationalist, orthodox Russian empire.

 

[RadekSkylark]

On that scale, yes. I believe it allows for an accent, but it's native speaker level in every other respect. That scale is used by the government, or at least it was at one time. I'm not sure what scale employers use, but there are several. I would suggest finding out what the gold standard is in corporate America for language testing and go ahead and get tested. That way they can see from your resume right up front that language isn't going to be a problem. The real test though is your first interview. It will likely be on the phone, or perhaps over Skype (the wonders of technology), so discerning intonation is going to be vital. Phone conversations are always a minefield, even for native speakers, because you don't have body language to help you.

I would also encourage you to rethink your motivation for doing this. Stop thinking of yourself as a refugee, and start thinking about this more as an opportunity to advance in the world, to get a job making more money in a stronger economy. If that has the added side effect of putting you somewhere you feel safer then so be it.

Can I ask you something, though. What is your primary motive here? It kind of seems to me that you simply have your heart set on coming to America, and that this is more or less an excuse to facilitate that end. I mean, there are better places to get out of geopolitical dodge, like New Zealand for example. If coming to America is your dream, you don't need an excuse. Or if God has put it in your heart to come here then no further explanation or rationalization is necessary.

Hmm, such a test seems to be a good idea to further the endeavor.

I'm not really thinking of our family as refugees, but rather a family whose main reason for radical life changes is pushed by the fear of becoming trapped in a situation where we'll have no choice but to pray for our lives. I may be wrong but possibly many of you don't really know the Latvian history of occupation by USSR, where in 1941 around 15 000 people were deported to USSR (Siberia and other places). Many of them died in few days in the freight train as many USSR soldiers didn't allow people to take any food or clothes with them. They died either by freezing or starvation. In 1949 around 45 000 people of which ~25% were younger than 16 were deported to USSR (again, to Siberia and other distant regions). Many thousands were executed during the occupation (until 1991). And I'm not talking even about any kind of minor things like talking Latvian, which was prohibited - everyone needed to talk Russian.

My primary motive is safety, but as we're not in an active war zone right now, I'm also concerned about other things like wealth, status, etc. I know if we'll move we'll have to sacrifice some of that at least for some time, but I'm sure it will pay off in the long run, cause I know that we'll not move to a destination with lower potential than Latvia so I know that it'll be worthwhile when we finally get things going. Why America? Maybe because of "propaganda" which has been around for quite some time now in all the movies, etc... living the American dream... Few of the main reasons are:
1) Economy and standard of living. I know for certain that when I'll get to the level I'm at right now in Latvia and even beyond that in the US I'll be earning way more than I do right now (maybe not that much more relatively, but more in terms of purchasing power for goods, etc). I know that my wife could have her chance of working in her field, which she really couldn't do here in Latvia as the industry here is just too small.
2) Education. I know I'll have the opportunity to send my kids to the best universities in the world if I'll be able to pay for them.
3) External safety. Disregarding nuclear war and terrorism I'm quite sure no one will try to occupy the US. I know terrorism is a way bigger problem in the US compared to Latvia, but it is a problem in the biggest European countries as well, so it's a draw in this sense.
4) Internal safety. This one actually worries me a bit. As I understand in past years there has been more and more confrontation between few groups of people with nationalist and racist disputes.
5) Opportunities for activities. I love riding motorcycles, my wife likes to ride as well. I've promised her a bike for the next season so she can try to ride for herself, not only as a pillion (passenger). If we can get to a place where it is relatively warm all year long I would love to ride a motorcycle as much as I can (to work, etc). I've trained BJJ (Brazillian Jiu Jitsu) for a year now and I really like it. My wife trains with me as well in the local gym. I know my daughter will also start to train as soon as it is possible in our gym. I would love to train GJJ (Gracie Jiu Jitsu) instead but there are no Gracie Academies in Latvia. I'm quite sure that we would try the Gracie Academy if we would live in the US. I like the idea of camping and outdoor activities. As I understand there are many options to camp and go hiking in many places in the US. Guns and survivalist stuff seems to be a reasonable thing to have in my life so that's just another thing I would probably be able to incorporate in our lives in the US.

My wife hates spiders, she's afraid of them so New Zealand and Austrailia is basically of the list. Anyway, I'm quite sure if the process of getting to US wouldn't be as hard as it definitely will be we would have moved to America long ago (if it was as simple to move to the US as it would be for as to move to any other EU country, where we can literally come and say that we'll be living here permanently and that's it).

Anyway it really comes down to a decision if I'm willing to risk my families safety being lazy and staying where we're at, where everything's working out for us so far, or will we sacrifice everything that's going for us right now to try and move to any other country where we'll have to almost start all over again with all the risks involved.

I'm sort of a news and information junkie. I read a lot of foreign news sources, to try to gain some understanding of other nations' goals, problems and methods. My opinions come from more than just one source, and usually after time has passed and other sources have offered their own versions of "truth". Doesn't make me a guru, but no one source causes an opinion.

I said in 1992 that NATO was no longer worth the money. The USSR's goals were lost. So, nine years of misery before the present ongoing rebuilding of a reasonable economy. Regardless of one's opinion of Putin, I don't believe he wants physical expansion of Russia and serious economic domination except where there is an Islamic threat--as in the southern underbelly of Russia.

Looks to me that he can get all he needs from the Baltic countries by normal commerce. Actual invasion looks to me to be pointless, from the standpoint of "the good of the Rodina". It's less about what they could do than it is about "Why bother?"

Right, wrong or indifferent, it seems to me that much of this "Fear Russia!" has resulted from propaganda promulgated by the NeoCons who have dominated US foreign policy for way too long. Those who doubt this can easily look up "Wolfowitz Doctrine" on their own and see if it's still in place.

Seems to me that the biggest danger to the Baltic countries is NATO biting off more than it can chew.

I guess my "sort of" answer is to stay home but don't reside near a NATO base.

Anyway, I really hope you're correct on everything because whatever we chose our parents, brothers and sisters will stay in Latvia. Indeed one would think that Putin has no real interests in the region, but what were the so obvious interests of Russia in Georgia in 2008 then? What about eastern Ukraine? I'm not implying that occupation is the only possible solution, but destabilization of internal affairs could be and it could lead to chaos as around 35% of people in Latvia (around 50% here in Riga) speak Russian and have different political goals than native Latvians.

I may not know enough to have a great argument for NATO in Latvia, but judging from Latvian history it's nice to know someones got your back (at least to some degree). And while Americans possibly won't really understand it, the fact that no more than 300km east of Capital city (Riga) on the border with Russia many thousandf Russian troops reside, who at will could occupy Latvia in just a few hours is mind boggling, to say the least.

What would you consider "near"? Is 30km enough? This is the distance from our house to the main military base...

 

[RadekSkylark]

It sounds like you want to stick around and be part of the resistance if the Russians try to annex Latvia again.

You're young. It's your homeland, and you probably feel honor bound by patriotism to do so.

With how the Soviets treated Latvia the last go around, rounding up tens of thousands, to send to Gulags in Siberia, to put down the resistance last time, there's undoubtedly some old stories which are very frightening.

This leaves you torn and conflicted between what you view as your "duty" and fear over what would happen to your family.

I know Jeff said to not get in to politics - and I will try to avoid this, but let's look at this tangent and assume Russia re-integrates Latvia to bring the 15% or so "non-citizens" you have, back in to their "loving care", where does that leave you? You aren't going to fight Mother Russia with a .357 handgun out in the woods. Well, you might, but it won't last long. Americans tend to believe that all you need is a rifle and a strong will, and you'll prevail against any odds.

But in America we have 300 million people, and even more guns than we have people, in private hands. Any occupying force would have "half globe" long supply lines to contend with. So here, it might be true. Rednecks with rifles would prevail even if our military was left in ruins.

But Latvia lacks the manpower and armament to be more than a tickle in the underbelly of Russia, who wouldn't have to contend with long supply lines, but rather, very very short ones, especially given that they'd be occupying a country where (just a short time before; e.g. currently) some 15% of the population weren't even considered "citizens" because they didn't have true Latvian heritage, but were instead descended from Russian blood lines.

Think about that. Right from the onset, 30% (give or take) of your population would be very much in line with Russia re-integration as ethnic Russians, and half of those (15%) would be very much in line because they aren't even citizens and don't even get to vote today! You've got a second class citizenry.

To the US folks, where minorities, women, everyone gets a vote (even dead people and illegal aliens in certain jurisdictions ), the thought of having a subjugated class without a say in anything is somewhat appalling.

The ethical merit of such a debate is only tangential, but it does bear weight in this discussion of revolutionary partisan - at least 30% of your country, from the very onset, is going to rapidly become "the enemy" in that they support the new Mother Russia overseers.

That is a *LOT* of eyes on everything. If the sheer weight of Russia's military might and the closeness (proximity) to Russia proper with the short supply lines weren't enough of a factor, that's the nail in the coffin of any potential resistance movement.

My advise is to get the thoughts of "glorious resistance" right out of your head, and quick, because any resistance in Latvia, with the sheer number of ethnic Russians and subjugated class, will be quashed before it's even born, and membership in an active resistance cell will be a very short lived and bloody experience.

And even if it's not? Even if organization is made so that you are able to take action? You'd be shooting your neighbors, fellow countrymen, those 30% ethnic russians, 50% of which are subjugated and currently non-citizens, many of whom who would be very supporting of a regime change.

That's a tough pill to swallow.

Regarding thoughts of emigration to another country, there's a lot of potentials. The good old USA is .. maybe not the best choice, for numerous reasons. Business is cutthroat here, highly competitive. Things are not easy even if you are brilliant in your career. We've offshored a massive amount of our labor and the remaining white collar jobs are incredibly competitive. High unemployment for so long has changed the feeling of the workplace.

Plus, you'd be cut to death by 1,001 taxes. It's hard to get ahead here. Hell, it's hard to keep your head above water, here!

I'd leave every option on the table, you have time to choose a more suitable home for your future generations of offspring. There's plenty of good choices out there which would be easier on you and your family, that wouldn't set you back so far.

I have to say that I agree with your analysis of the potential situation here in Latvia, unfortunately. The situation is far from pleasant.
I see what you're saying about the US. The selection of the right destination for moving also is a tricky question to tackle. I know that we'll have to weight out every aspect and we'll have to decide on the destination, but for now I'm more worried about making the main choise - wether to stay or emigrate.

 

[Kleanbore]

This topic is far beyond the scope of THR, but the quality of the discussion has led us to keep it open.

I should think that now with 56 posts, it has served its purpose, so we'll close it now.

Member wh want to add anything more should feel free to do so via PM