New to me Russian rifle "?"

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Magnuumpwr

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I just received a rifle today and am unsure of the caliber. I know it is russian because on the receiver is a sickle and hammer inside a leaf wreath along with russian writing on the rear sight. Under the sickle/hammer is " 1929 P or I' ", under that is the serial # and under that is triangle with an arrow pointing towards the top point of the triangle. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
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How did you chance to "receive" this rifle?

Is it a Moisin Nagant or Something Else?

Why are you certain that it is not 7.62x54R?

Can you furnish pictures?
 
Jim, I made a huge mistake in stating that I was certain it was not 7.62x54r. Upon further fiddling with it realized how to load the ammo in the mag. It is a heavily abused gun with no front sight hood, no cleaning rod, patina finish all around on the metal parts, and what appears to be water splotches on the left side of the wood. As to how I "received" it, a guy that works with my wife knows that I collect guns and thought that I could clean it up and get some use out of it. He said it was sitting around gathering dust and he would never use it. Not sure where or how he acquired it. My wife neglected to tell him that I collect semi-auto military rifles, hence my incompetence trying to figure this rifle out. Weird thing is that this rifle will get cleaned up, but probably never fire a single round! I have a dragunov to burn up my 7.62x54r ammo. Thank you for your help, just wish I had taken more time before asking my stupid caliber question. I will try to post pics this weekend before the clean up and some after.
 
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Good addition!

You have a Mosin-Nagant 91/30. The "1929" under the hammer and sickle is the year it was made--hence manufactured in 1929--the character after it is a Russian letter, but I'm not sure what it represents.
More info check out this thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=334979

or go to: http://7.62x54r.net/

If it's in bad shape it'll still make a nice wallhanger. I have a M-N M44 that is just that, to much rust pitting on the barrel. :(
 
Look at the rear sight!!! That's not a 91/30 at ALL. It is a Mosin Nagant, but not a 1891/30 model with that rear sight.
 
yes it is the early ones had sights like that. most of the ones you see have been aresinal rebuilt.
 
no front sight hood
Click to expand...

Hmm. It may actually be a real, genuine intact late model transitional dragoon. These were produced in small numbers in 1929 before the final plans for the 91/30 came together. The fact that it still has its original rear and front sights tells me it's not a converted dragoon. These are way harder to find than the converted ones with the updated sights. The Soviets didn't leave many of them alone. Does it match this:

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/0002.jpg

Also check for [SA] stamps. I smell pine tar coming off that stock. It's too dark to be Soviet. Don't be too aggressive in your cleaning till the ID is positive.

If it is indeed a Winter War capture true Dragoon, you got a nice pup there. That would however explain why it escaped getting cut up and reworked into a 91/30 pattern.

EDIT--I SEE SLING SWIVELS! I knew I smelled pine tar. That's a Finn. Ain't no Ruskie rifle ever used swivels. It may be a Finn captured true dragoon most likely from the front lines in 1939 or early 1940. Or it may be that they just used a dragoon barrel. To tell you'll have to confirm the receiver tang date matches the barrel date and arsenal. That's an easy check. Given that the stock is Soviet manufacture I'm betting the receiver and barrel match. It may have a new bolt though, but that's typical.

Very interesting piece! Don't do any more cleaning on it.
 
Cosmoline you might be on to something there with it being a dragoon or converted dragoon. Checked all the links, descriptions, and pics that are on 7.62net (they call them dragoon and cossack cavalry rifles) The rear sight matches, along with the description of the open front sight.
Also found that the sling hanger shown on this on is considered an "Austro-Hungarian wire hanger." Don't know, and haven't read, if that helps with proper id'ing or was a random feature depending on arsenal.

Either way, Magnuumpwr, I still say you have a good addition and, with enough research, maybe a great find!
 
I compared it to the link posted. Differences are the rear edge of the front sight does not have the notch, wood heat shield has metal caps on both ends, no brass insert in rear sling hole (has wire), front sling hole has just brass cover on bottom of hole, and rear sight is marked on the left side from receiver to muzzle 4 6 8 10 12 and flip the sight up and marked 13-32 even #'s on left and odd #'s on right. OK cosmo, I must be an idiot, what are the SA #'s and where are they located?
 
The [SA] is a stamp that will look like this:

m3910.jpg


or something like that. If it's not a Finn then it's even more unusual for having a wire swivel. Check for any odd stamps or marks on the receiver and base of the barrel.

The heat guard could easily be a replacement and the front blade sights came in many different shapes esp. in Finn captured rifles.
 
I think this is likely an 1891 Dragoon from the last year of production; the following year, they came out with the 1891/30 that eliminated the steps on the rear right (it was changed to an arc, with the sight leaf being marked for range), and changed the front sight to the hooded style with a stronger base, so the new style of bayonet would fit and not come loose. Up until 1930, they were still making these rifles in Infantry (31 1/2" barrel), Dragoon (28 3/4 barrel), and Cossack (28 3/4" barrel, and also marked with a "KA3") versions, along with some 1907 Carbines (20" barrel).
 
Also found that the sling hanger shown on this on is considered an "Austro-Hungarian wire hanger."
Click to expand...

If there's no SA stamp it's a real mystery. Looking at the rear sight, it's still in Arshins which also tends to rule out my Finnish theory. I was ruling out Austro-Hungarian swivels given the date on the barrel shank. By 1929 that empire no longer existed. Weird.

It's a real mystery rifle. Is there anyway you can post some closeups of the barrel shank area? That's the one with the arsenal and year on it. That's the first place to look for clues.

It appears to be an upside down "m" and the numbers 97.
Click to expand...

They appear to be some kind of proofing stamps, but I can't find any specific references to them. A lot of these marks nobody really knows.

Are there a different set of numbers on the right side of the rear sight base? Also it looks like it's missing a button.
 
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I have searched every inch of this gun and can not find an SA stamp anywhere on it. Having trouble with photobucket, but the only other markings on the receiver appear to be a double slashed "A" in a circle and a "G" in a circle almost in line with one another on the same side of gun. Here is a compilation of photos I have.
DSC02365-1.jpg
DSC02369.jpg
DSC02370.jpg
DSC02371.jpg
Maybe some of these will help.
 
Well guys best I can tell I will not be doing anything to this gun as of yet. The guys on the collectors board say that it is possibly a dragoon with a value of anywhere from 300 to 500 dollars. So in my collection it will sit till I determine exactly what it is and it's actual worth. Thanks again for all the help.
 
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