Non-Citizen CCW permit

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Ben86

Ben86

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MS, USA
I would like to get some advice on a unique issue that my wife and I have. She is a permanent resident. She will be applying for her citizenship soon, but as of right now she is not a citizen. She wants a concealed carry permit. MS is a shall issue state. However, the permit office says that you have to be a citizen to get one. But, and this is what confused us, there is a page in the application specifically for legal resident permanent residents. It asks for your alien registration number and everything. There is also nothing in Mississippi concealed carry law stating citizenship as a requirement, this has been verified for me by the NRA. The NRA suggested a certain lawyer, but he was too scared to challenge the state. I have yet to find a lawyer that will help me.

What do you think I should do? When I call the office I always get some drone that says it is a requirement, its on their website, but it is not. It is nowhere in MS law. Should I right a letter to the governors office? Does it sound to you that this is just some arbitary, xenophobic rule that has been implemented by the current group in charge, or am I missing something? Any thoughts, opinions or advice would be much appreciated, I am stumped on this one.
 
Well since there is nothing in writing and the application covers it have you tried just sending the application anyway and see what happens?

Until she is actually denied there isn't really any standing to take the case to court.

I would want a denial in writing before firing up the legal machine.
 
Get the Florida Non-Resident Carry Concealed Weapons license.

Florida Statute 790.06.2.a specifies that
(2) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall issue a license if the applicant:

(a) Is a resident of the United States and a citizen of the United States or a permanent resident alien of the United States, as determined by the United States Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services,...
Click to expand...

Shameless plug to follow: We have an online women's course for the Florida license. She can do the "live fire" qualification under the supervision of a certified instructor in MS or come to Florida for the live fire session.
Click OurSafeHome.net
Use the discount code "THR" and save 25%!
 
Here in Washington State, you can either apply at a local police office or the sheriff's office for a Concealed Pistol License. I suggest you visit another office. The clerks most probably do not know the law. As far as I know, WA state was the LAST state that allowed permanent residents to apply for a permit.

When that law took affect, my friend, also a green card holder, was denied in purchasing a firemarm because the local police denied it based on the lack of knowledge of the new law. He then called the supervisor of the police department and had it cleared. He has purchased about 10 firearms since.
 
I would find all the info I could......State laws, Applications and such as that. Then I would get an appointment with the Sheriff (an elected official that just happens to issue the CCL) and explain the situation to him showing him the "evidence" (for lack of a better word) and see what, if anything, he's willing to do.

Just don't go in there with a "See, I know more than you do" attitude, go in asking for information and seeking a solution.
 
The suggestion by OurSafeHome.net is excellent. Does Mississippi allow its residents to carry with an out-of-state permit?

Some state recognize other permits, but only for non-residents. Better check it out.
 
my wife is an LPR. she has LTCF in pennsylvania.

if i were you i would find the statute for your state online and take it to the sherrif's office for discussion. we didn't have to, as our sherrif was versant in the legal aspects of the issue. we did have to wait a few days for USCIS to validate her status.
 
Looks like a Florida would work. That's a great idea. Get the Florida permit then take that into the license offce in MS and see how it goes :)

MS law:

Reciprocity

If a person holds a valid license to carry a concealed handgun issued in another state, that license will be recognized as valid in Mississippi, provided the issuing state authorizes Mississippi license holders to carry concealed handguns in that state and has communicated that fact to DPS. Section 45-9-101(19).
Click to expand...

Florida does recognize MS licenses too, with the same catch.

The one provision, however, is that those other states must be willing to recognize and honor concealed weapon or firearm licenses issued by the State of Florida so that Florida licensees enjoy the same rights and benefits when they travel to those other states.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the advice. I am going to gather as much proof that I can that what they told me is bogus. I'll print out the MS statute conerning concealed carry, and the form specifically for permanent residents and take that to a highway patrol office (that's were they are processed here) and see what they say. I'm trying to sort this out without having to hire a lawyer, but these people do seem to be thoroughly confused about the law.
I thought I remember WA being the last state to allow CCPs for permanent residents. That's why this struck me as especially odd.

If my wife does get an out of state CCP I think we'll go with LA. That would be a shorter drive. :) You do still have to be there to get fingerprinted right?
 
Good luck with your quest. Here in Ohio it didn't seem to make any difference when i got mine, been a Permanent Resident for 11 years (Citizenship coming on the 5th November woohoo). I have permits/licenses from several states as well as an FFL, nobody has cared so far.

When I do a Brady to buy a gun i have to submit electric bills etc to prove residence, but outside of that NICS doesn't care either. If the ATF and FBI don't care, as long as i am legal, then its plain ridiculous if a local force does.
 
The advice above, to just go ahead and apply seems to make the most sense to me. I would just fill out the application and submit. Save the info you researched to use ONLY IF they issue a denial.

If you bring it up before a denial, you risk getting someone's back up against the wall.
 
If my wife does get an out of state CCP I think we'll go with LA. That would be a shorter drive. You do still have to be there to get fingerprinted right?
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No. For the Florida permit you do not have to go to Florida. It can all be done through the mail.
 
Can't comment on MS law but when I was a permanent resident alien in Texas, about 3 years before I became a citizen, I went thru all the hoops and my application went through without a hitch. I guess they were glad to take my $150 lol.

It was a REAL nice feeling though when time came for renewal and I could put under the residency status US Citizen . Dunno what kind of trouble I would have had if I had first gotton my permit post-911 days.
 
I am truly dumbfounded. I called the MS firearms permit headquarters in Jackson, MS today and asked why can my wife not get her permit because she is not a citizen when A: There is no requirement under MS Firearms Permit statute and B: There is a page on the applaction dedicated to people not born in the U.S. and includes a part for legal alien residents to put their alien registration number.

Get this, he informed me that the application had changed since I last printed it about five months ago. And there is a new law stating that citizenship is a requirement. So I checked the website www.dps.state.ms.us for the new law and application. Guess what? It's the same!

Law: http://www.dps.state.ms.us/dps/dps.nsf/divpages/hp2fpu-45-9-101?OpenDocument

Application: http://www.dps.state.ms.us/dps/dps.nsf/webdisplay?OpenForm&Type=Form&Div=hp2fp

So now I am left to believe that either they really don't know what they are talking about or they are purposely trying to decieve people for whatever reason. I am truly amazed. I wish I had recorded the conversation because it was astounding.

I hate to give in and just let my wife get a Florida CCP, but this is going to be an uphill struggle for sure. My last recourse is the governors office, or my local Reps. office.

Wow.
 
I hate to give in and just let my wife get a Florida CCP, but this is going to be an uphill struggle for sure. My last recourse is the governors office, or my local Reps. office.
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So again, I don't mean to beat the dead horse, but have you actually sent an application in and had it rejected or are you just asking the question?

Telling you one thing over the phone is very different than them putting a specific rejection in writing.

Putting it in writing puts them on the hook in a big way in Shall Issue cases. May even put THEM in violation of the law.

If the law says they SHALL issue a permit unless XXX happens, and they don't do that, you are in the drivers seat to a large extent.
 
I don't think you would have to resort to the governor's office at all. The admin, that you spoke to over the phone, doesn't likely know much, outside of the usual answers, to the usual questions that get asked everyday.

You might not have to drive to another state to get a non-resident permit from, say Utah. There are CCW courses here in Colorado, where I can obtain a Utah permit. Look into that.

Otherwise, I'd honestly, if your situation were mine, just have her process the information with your state, to get its permit, and wait to be approved or denied. I'd bet she'd be approved.
 
To clarify, no I have not sent the application in for fear that I would needlessly loose $132. I have been simply told this by people working at the substations processing the permits (including the MBI agent doing the prints) as well as the main office in Jackson.

We went to submit her application about five months ago. She was fingerprinted and everything but when we went to pay they asked for a copy of her naturalization form (which is something you only have when become a citizen). I pitched a fit and they called the main office, which repeated what they were telling me.
 
To clarify, no I have not sent the application in for fear that I would needlessly loose $132. I have been simply told this by people working at the substations processing the permits (including the MBI agent doing the prints) as well as the main office in Jackson.
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Well that's the thing. You can't say much to your elected representatives at this point because she hasn't actually been rejected.

It may take you investing that application fee in order to force the issue.

Until you are rejected you don't really have "standing" as it were.

Without a written rejection listing the reasons you don't really have anything to argue I'm afraid.

Unless you are willing to spend some money and force the issue you are probably better off going with the Florida permit since that seems to be a rock solid solution.
 
Yes that is true. I just hate that they are doing this to my wife and other legal residents though. But then, my main objective is for my wife to be able to carry a concealed handgun asap, not dish out legal justice. So we are going to go with the Florida Permit then.

This place and its members are truly an invaluable asset, I mean that.
 
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Fill out the application, send it in, if they approve it then fine, if the deny it then they will need to give a reason and if the reason given is outside what the law states then get a lawyer.
BTW, my wife is a permanent resident as well (just passed the civics test 2 weeks ago for citizenship application) and she has held a cwp in AZ and currently hold one for UT.
 
Technically she is a citizen - caveat - she cannot vote nor hold public office... as are LPR's in all other states. Say so right on the immigration web site.

Naturalization aka swearing in - seals the deal.

I will be Naturalized next summer but I still have my WA CPL...
 
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