Para Ord Firing Pin Spring Problem

[bobnailer]

Okay, I know I know, I set up a thread with a similar title but this is something I've never seen before. I have a new Para Ord GI Expert. I finally was able to remove the firing pin after the firing pin cover was removed with the help of a small hammer and a flathead screwdriver; the firing pin cover's tolerances are way too tight, but enough about that.

The firing pin came out but the firing pin spring will not come out. Is this typical of Para Ord's? Is this typical of the GI Expert?

I have a Springer Champion and a Kimber Ultra Raptor, their firing pin covers slide out easy as pie, their firing pins and springs come out easy as pie.

The Para Ord shoots beautifully but when it comes to the simple stuff, its turning out to try my patience.

Any help/advice would be appreciated.

Bob

 

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I just recently bought a para gi and am wondering why you were taking the firing pin out (problems or maintaince). I did have a problem with the slide stop being pushed out a little by the mag follower. It could also be pushed by my finger. the pin seemed a little small.

 

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Never mind I just read your other thread. I will add that I do like mine and it is my first 1911 I have only put a box of ammo through it so far.

 

[bobnailer]

I put 250 rounds of Tula (Russian) ammo through it, Russian gunpowder does not burn clean like American gunpowder, so even though I did the typical field strip to clean the Para, I knew I should also clean the firing pin/spring and the extractor because the Tula powder left a lot of black residue all over the pistol.

I'm thinking maybe the firing pin plunger (in the bottom side of the slide) may be preventing the spring from coming out. The firing pin plunger is what I had to depress to allow the firing pin to be depressed far enough to allow the firing pin stop to slide out, THEN I had to re-depress the firing pin plunger a 2nd time to allow the firing pin to come out, but only the firing pin came out, not the spring. So I'm going to disassemble it again to see if the firing pin plunger is the reason why the spring won't come out.

After firing them, I go to this effort to clean my pistols not to be anal about their cleanliness, rather, I do it so that the next time I use it at the range or when I'm concealed carry, I know it'll go BANG!

Imagine if I didn't clean it thoroughly like I do and all it did was go CLICK! when I dropped the hammer on a bad guy.

If I think there's a problem, then there's a problem.
If I fix the problem, then there's no problem.

Bob

 

[.338-06]

I had a problem taking out the firing pin spring on my P 13. I used a Q-tip to catch the spring and pulled it out without a problem. Cleaned a lot of gunk out of the hole and haven't had trouble getting the spring out since.

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

The firing pin came out but the firing pin spring will not come out. Is this typical of Para Ord's? Is this typical of the GI Expert?

yes.

the firing pin cover plate on my GI expert was WAY too tight. it took about 10 mins of careful hammering with a flathead screwdriver to get mine off as well.

i sold it, but i don't recall having any probs getting the firing pin itself out. your firing pin channel is may be under spec, or it could be gunked up.

 

[bobnailer]

I was able to remove the firing pin spring when I liberally hosed down the firing pin channel with spray CLP product I use, I depressed the firing pin plunger and the spring came out. I then used an AR-15 pipe cleaner I had on hand and with CLP, cleaned out the firing pin channel thoroughly.

But I still could not remove the extractor, even if I depress the firing pin plunger, the extractor would not come out. My SA GI Champion does not have this firing pin plunger, so its extractor comes out easily.

So I researched further, online, and read that the rear sight has to be removed to allow for the firing pin plunger and spring to be removed from the top of the slide and then and only then will the extractor come out.

The Para Ord manual for the GI Expert says nothing about removal of the firing pin or extractor.

My gentle hammering on the extractor, using material between the punch and the extractor, caused slight hammer marks on the front/rear of the extractor; I was depressing the firing pin plunger while hammering. So now I may have caused very slight marring to the extractor claw and the rear of the extractor by the firing pin stop, so I ordered a new extractor from Brownells, $25.00 U.S., and I'm going to have my local gunsmith install it for me.

I called Para Ord in North Carolina to confirm what I read about the extractor and the firing pin plunger, they would not confirm what I read due to liability issues. They suggested I might mail the entire firearm to them and have them install the new extractor, for about $80 incl. labor. I refused as I've shipped a 1911 before and it took weeks to get it back. I don't want to wait weeks to get my 1911 back.

Everyone has asked me why would I want to remove the extractor and like I said previously, that Tula ammo powder gunked everything up and I'm sure the extractor itself got gunked... sure I cleaned the extractor claw, but the rest of it is yet uncleaned.

I learn by doing, that's why I hauled off and tried to strip down my Para Ord on my own.
I want to learn this stuff inside and out and just reading about it doesn't work for me and just leaving well enough alone is not in my DNA; I don't want to have faith that if I left the filthy gunked up extractor alone it would continue to function properly ... helluva thought if I had to use the Para to defend myself only to find out I had a FTE in a gunfight because the extractor malfunctioned because I didn't clean out that gunk from the Tula ammo.

The old SEAL saying is "if you even think there might be a problem, you have a problem, so go fix it so you won't have a problem."

I want all my firearms 100% operational, otherwise why have them at all?

Bob

 

[1911Tuner]

Para uses a close copy of Colt's Series 80 system. You have to remove the firing pin plunger before it will release the extractor because the extractor holds the plunger in place.

Back up on the extractor just a bit, and the plunger should release unless it's really gunked up. Be sure to lay the slide on a towel to keep the plunger and spring from bouncing off into that other dimension where small parts go never to be seen again.

If the plunger doesn't release, you may need to persuade it with needle nosed pliers.
Just be sure to maintain control of it, or...boingboingboing. Color it gone.

Once the plunger is out, the extractor will come out. If it moves a short distance and stops, check to see if the hook is grabbing the breechface. Spring it open and push back at the same time. Once the hook is into the channel, it'll come right out.

Luck to ya!

 

[gb6491]

Para uses a close copy of Colt's Series 80 system. You have to remove the firing pin plunger before it will release the extractor because the extractor holds the plunger in place...

Back up on the extractor just a bit, and the plunger should release unless it's really gunked up.

+1 on what Tuner said; see how it's done at about the 5:00 mark in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6H1tUP6IwM
Regards,
Greg

 

[bobnailer]

gb6491, many thanks for the youtube video, it demonstrated exactly what I was looking for.
Bob

 

[bobnailer]

Ok, well, I purchased a "shim" and installed it on my Para Ord GI Expert, works just fine. I'm a happy camper now. I had to replace my "old" extractor (the pistol is less than six months old) because I had hammered on it enough that even though I was gentle (with the hammering) I don't think its a good idea to hammer on an extractor. So I purchased a Para Ord extractor on Brownells and once the shim was installed allowing me to remove the firing pin plunger and plunger spring, I can now remove the extractor for cleaning very easily... just like I can on my Springer GI Champion. Basically I turned the Para Ord from a series 80 to a series 70 pistol in as far as the firing pin safety plunger/spring goes.

Bob