Person killed at the local range

[Mowgli Terry]

Right on the MI, One of the first events on the forensic autopsy is an active substance use disorder. We are seeing this with the current opoid epidemic. You also look for loss of financial and/or social relationships Your also look for suicides in the family. Another sign is previous attempts. We have all been on people whose life has gone down the tubes. These are only a few signs of those at risk for suicide. If ;you have shooting friends that are showing these symptoms do what you can to have them seek help.

 

[jmorris]

Suicide is not uncommon at shooting ranges.

Not really uncommon at all. Seems like the longer you “stick it out” the less appealing it becomes though.

 

[kmw1954]

I have had 4 suicides in my life. My nephew, my sisters son, hung himself in a park. My best friend from childhood, hung himself in the garage, One of my best friends son, ate a shotgun in the living room of their home. Another long time friend and customer ate his shotgun after his wife files for divorce. It stinks and is even hard on those that discover the bodies left behind. In my nephews case it was 2 strangers fishing in the park. My best friend, it was his mother when she came home from church.

Another friend told me of his father-in-law that was a trucker and he had someone run out in front of him one night. He was never able to drive again it upset him so.

There are more people dying of suicide and drug overdose every day than there are being shot. Yet we don't hear that outrage do we?

 

[sparkyv]

sparkyv, in some cases you may be right in saying that it's a spiritual matter but not in all cases of mental illness can one say that. As an example in mental illness such as narcissism, the narcissist doesn't believe at all in God or in anything else, outside of themselves, so there's no framework there to bring that person to a spiritual awareness. Another example is a person with BiPolar Disorder. If they don't get the right diagnosis and the right medicine by and large they will commit suicide. I think Mowgli Terry is correct in stating that these people with mental illnesses have levels of despair that are unbelievable and it is a mental health problem. It's like saying that a starving man needs spiritual help, which could be true, but not until he's fed and well cared for will he be open to spiritual guidance.

Milt1, I respectfully disagree. Perhaps if I put it this way: it is a matter of lack of spirituality. I've been told that I perceive things as being "black or white with no grey areas". Perhaps. Regardless, people who suffer from such deep despair and hopelessness need our prayers. Prayers are the only thing that can save their lives.

 

[Skgreen]

Both my Grandfather and my BIL committed suicide.

You very, very seldom have 'the whole story' beforehand, and afterwards, when it all comes to light, you'll always look back differently at certain aspects of their lives.

Without diving into the details, I can fully understand the reasoning behind both my Grandfathers and BIL's decision, and 'trapped with no possible way out" appears to be the underlying thought in both cases.

 

[Skgreen]

I've been told that I perceive things as being "black or white with no grey areas".

I used to be that way, but a couple decades worth of 'Corporate Life' has revealed to me that there are a LOT of gray area's, where things can (and often will) go either way.

 

[GEM]

l’m not getting into another Deity squabble. I will just say that a person with suicidial ideation needs professional help beyond prayers. If you don’t do that for yourself, I don’t care. If you advise someone else to not get professional help , you are immoral.

Also we are not going to have a religion discussion.

 

[sparkyv]

l’m not getting into another Deity squabble. I will just say that a person with suicidial ideation needs professional help beyond prayers. If you don’t do that for yourself, I don’t care. If you advise someone else to not get professional help , you are immoral.

Also we are not going to have a religion discussion.

Come on GEM, no one said that we should not advise someone to get help. And you are a moderator, so I will abide by your decision regarding what you are calling a religious discussion,.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

Don't want to aggravate the topic. But prompt action is necessary. I'll do what's right for the person. I'd say pray while you take action to prevent harm to (him/her)self or others. Be doing both at the same time. Some of us have experience with suicides. We speak from experience.

 

[Milt1]

Milt1, I respectfully disagree. Perhaps if I put it this way: it is a matter of lack of spirituality. I've been told that I perceive things as being "black or white with no grey areas". Perhaps. Regardless, people who suffer from such deep despair and hopelessness need our prayers. Prayers are the only thing that can save their lives.

sparkyv, I can tell that you've never dealt with someone with real mental illness. Well I have and I'm saying with respect that you're way off base. Please talk with a psychiatrist or psychologist and tell them your solution to mental illness and see what they say.

 

[Sistema1927]

In evaluating someone for suicidal tendencies it is helpful to remember "IS PATH WARM":

I = Ideation

S = Substance Use

P = Purposelessness

A = Anxiety

T = Trapped

H = Hopelessness

W = Withdrawal

A = Anger

R = Recklessness

M = Mood Change

If you recognize these signs in someone, never be afraid to ask "Are you thinking about hurting/killing yourself?" as well as "Do you have a plan to hurt/kill yourself?" If they answer yes, do not leave them without getting help. Some people think that asking these questions will push someone in that direction but it has been shown that this is not the case. Just having someone who cares enough to ask can be the first step in saving a life.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

Well, #61 covers it like an umbrella. Some folks believe that helping somebody is the prayer. Use all the personal and professional resources at hand.

 

[sparkyv]

I appreciate your personal experiences Mowgli Terry, Milt1, Sistema and others. My personal experiences are deemed inappropriate for discussion, so I won't be following this thread after this post. If I offended anyone, please accept my apology.

 

[kmw1954]

This topic has certainly deteriorated. The thought that this young person may have committed suicide or the method they chose to do it does not disturb me as much as to the location they decided to carry this out. For me this states two things about the incident. 1. he wanted to make a loud statement. 2. he wanted to be found quickly!

It does disturb me when a person in this state of mind decides that they need to involve as many other people in their act as possible. This is a very traumatic event for anyone to walk into. Plus the very real possibility that there could have been a child present to witness this event. This wasn't a case of someone going off to a private room and blowing there brains across the room or sitting in the bathroom and slitting their wrists. This was very public! Meant for maximum exposure.

Yes I feel remorse for the poor soul but I feel much more concern for those that had to deal with the aftermath!

 

[old lady new shooter]

This topic has certainly deteriorated. The thought that this young person may have committed suicide or the method they chose to do it does not disturb me as much as to the location they decided to carry this out. For me this states two things about the incident. 1. he wanted to make a loud statement. 2. he wanted to be found quickly!

It does disturb me when a person in this state of mind decides that they need to involve as many other people in their act as possible. This is a very traumatic event for anyone to walk into. Plus the very real possibility that there could have been a child present to witness this event. This wasn't a case of someone going off to a private room and blowing there brains across the room or sitting in the bathroom and slitting their wrists. This was very public! Meant for maximum exposure.

Yes I feel remorse for the poor soul but I feel much more concern for those that had to deal with the aftermath!

First of all, the time to pay attention is when the person is alive and hurting. Maybe doing it publicly is a way of chiding those who ignored the person in life.

Secondly, even if the person does it in private, someone is going to discover the body and have to deal with it. Even law enforcement officers, who not infrequently are the person first on the scene, find it upsetting to view a suicide.

 

[GEM]

I think we have adequately covered this issue and incident. So I'm going to call. Just remember that resources exist to help people.