Police State?
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tcdrennen
Member
See my sig for my opinion.
If the populace is completely dependent on the police powers of the state to protect it against predators and criminals, then it is a police state. Thus NYC, Chicago, D.C.. L.A. are or approach the status of police states.
And since those areas at least THINK they set the standards for The Rest Of Us, and are doing everything they can, By Whatever Means Necessary, to impose those standards on the nation, the movement toward a total Police State (and/or Tyranny) is well underway.
And, yes, it did start with Washington's suppression of the Whiskey Rebellion (L.Neil Smith for President!
) or maybe even the stealth creation of the Constitution by a convention whose only legal authority was to reform/revise the Articles of Confederation.
But I like the Constitution For The United States Of America, as originally written. Yes, they blew it big time with their failure to address slavery, leading eventually to the Appeal To Heaven sometimes called the Civil War - and States' Rights were NOT the issue, BTW; in fact the slave states had vigorously OPPOSED "States Rights" just 10 years earlier when the abolitionists claimed it as justification for ignoring the Fugitive Slave Act and the slave owners insisted on the supremacy of the Federal power in seizing escaped slaves.
Jeebus, I can digress.
Anyway, I support (and defend) the Constitution these days. Imperfect as it may be, it's the best humans have ever written down, and its principles are sound.
We do need to reawaken the average citizen's understanding and committment to it. The arguements of the statists would fall on deaf ears if the people truly honored the principles of the Declaration and the Constitution; the statists have had there way with defining the debate for 'way too long.
And they desperately want and NEED a Police State to ensure their domination: after all, It's For The Children.
The fact that The Children will in all likelyhood d@mn them for their presumption is of no importance - by then THEY'LL all be dead, as John Maynard Keynes noted when confronted with the certain consequences of HIS statist prescriptions.
:banghead:
If the populace is completely dependent on the police powers of the state to protect it against predators and criminals, then it is a police state. Thus NYC, Chicago, D.C.. L.A. are or approach the status of police states.
And since those areas at least THINK they set the standards for The Rest Of Us, and are doing everything they can, By Whatever Means Necessary, to impose those standards on the nation, the movement toward a total Police State (and/or Tyranny) is well underway.
And, yes, it did start with Washington's suppression of the Whiskey Rebellion (L.Neil Smith for President!
) or maybe even the stealth creation of the Constitution by a convention whose only legal authority was to reform/revise the Articles of Confederation.But I like the Constitution For The United States Of America, as originally written. Yes, they blew it big time with their failure to address slavery, leading eventually to the Appeal To Heaven sometimes called the Civil War - and States' Rights were NOT the issue, BTW; in fact the slave states had vigorously OPPOSED "States Rights" just 10 years earlier when the abolitionists claimed it as justification for ignoring the Fugitive Slave Act and the slave owners insisted on the supremacy of the Federal power in seizing escaped slaves.
Jeebus, I can digress.
Anyway, I support (and defend) the Constitution these days. Imperfect as it may be, it's the best humans have ever written down, and its principles are sound.
We do need to reawaken the average citizen's understanding and committment to it. The arguements of the statists would fall on deaf ears if the people truly honored the principles of the Declaration and the Constitution; the statists have had there way with defining the debate for 'way too long.
And they desperately want and NEED a Police State to ensure their domination: after all, It's For The Children.
The fact that The Children will in all likelyhood d@mn them for their presumption is of no importance - by then THEY'LL all be dead, as John Maynard Keynes noted when confronted with the certain consequences of HIS statist prescriptions.
:banghead:Sam Adams
Member
Rapidly approaching. The myriad of (unconstitutional) laws that have been passed in the name of the War on (Some) Drugs and the War on Terror are literally incomprehensible, but they collectively (an interesting word, no?) give the Fed.gov INCREDIBLE powers once either the President or the AG certify that there's an "emergency" or that you belong to a "terrorist group" or that you possess various "illegal" items, etc. I'm not too worried about what Bush & Co. will do with that kind of power, but I am petrified about what a President $hitlery and AG Schemer will be able to do. A police state is only as far away as a Reichstag Fire (i.e. a fake event) involving guns under such an administration.
Our only hope is that they will be equally or more petrified to act against 85 million people armed with a quarter of a BILLION guns (and isn't that exactly why the 2nd Amendment was proposed and ratified?).
Our only hope is that they will be equally or more petrified to act against 85 million people armed with a quarter of a BILLION guns (and isn't that exactly why the 2nd Amendment was proposed and ratified?).
Edward429451
member
Sure have. Very scary. Only one possible scenario. Even scarier yet.
Mike, WADR, I think you may be oversimplifieing the situation. Just because the signs still in the window doesn't mean its in stock in the store. No one ever stayed alive by underestimating their opponent. It could be that no one has put it all together yet on the nature of the fraud...
Out of stock? Can I get a raincheck on my Liberty please? LOL.
The thing that the conspiracy theorists have going for them is that they are not underestimating their opponent, even if their wrong about certain specifics.
Moparmike
Member
I agree with "rapidly approaching." It may very well be in my lifetime, but I will probably be too old to do anything about it.
Art summed it up well.
Art summed it up well.
I am:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04181/339070.stm
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/06/28/scotus.enemy.combatants.ap/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62516-2004Jun22.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A44849-2004Jun15.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5223932/
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/12/iraq/main628789.shtml
http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,63702,00.html
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/07/21/justice.civil.liberties/
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=110-06282004
(to pick just a few of the thousands of relevant articles at random)
A reckless disregard for basic human rights and the right of law, not to mention a total disrespect for the truth and the American people (and its brave soldiers who've been sent off to die) are part and parcel of the Bush adminstration. They'll bend you over and screw you without thinking twice. Don't believe that because Republicans have traditionally been more in favor of the RKBA than Demos that they're any better otherwise.
Last edited:
Lobotomy Boy
Member
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2004
- Messages
- 2,449
I'll make a prediction: If the Bush administration declares a state of emergency and suspends the elections next fall, as it is reportedly preparing for according to last week's Newsweek, it will at least explore the possibility of confiscating privately owned firearms in the name of national security.
Many of us would say, "There's no way I'd let that happen," but the sad fact is that if push came to shove, most people would obey authority and turn in their firearms, just as they turned in certain types of firearms in England and Australia. The press would crucify the few who resisted and were killed or arrested, and the remaining sheeple would turn in their firearms, complaining loudly all the way. We'd have a new cabinet position of "Gun Czar," and the New World Order would include at best a token bill of rights.
At that point it would be game over. Bush and the neocons would be our new royalty.
Many of us would say, "There's no way I'd let that happen," but the sad fact is that if push came to shove, most people would obey authority and turn in their firearms, just as they turned in certain types of firearms in England and Australia. The press would crucify the few who resisted and were killed or arrested, and the remaining sheeple would turn in their firearms, complaining loudly all the way. We'd have a new cabinet position of "Gun Czar," and the New World Order would include at best a token bill of rights.
At that point it would be game over. Bush and the neocons would be our new royalty.
DRZinn
Member
Almost. The real trick is to open other people's eyes without being seen as Chicken Little.
JohnBT
Member
"police state: Where the police are the only ones with guns."
I like that.
John
I like that.
John
RevDisk
Member
We are always one step away from a police state. Politicians have always wanted as much power as possible. Keeping them in check is an ongoing process, and it always will be.
Keep voting, keep writing to your congresscritters, support the best politicians possible, educate your children. These are the ways to maintain freedom.
Keep voting, keep writing to your congresscritters, support the best politicians possible, educate your children. These are the ways to maintain freedom.
biere
Member
Personally, I feel the supreme court has made this a police state. I get too upset rolling through their choices but many are not for the normal citizen in my personal opinion.
A phrase along the lines of when a recession is when others are poor and a depression is when you are poor would go like this: A police state would be when you are nailed by stupid laws and a verge on a police state would be when others are nailed by stupid laws.
The national seatbelt law, I think it went national since ohio finally has it now. Its a seatbelt folks, get over it.
Some of the national dui laws that get into alcohol limits and road funds, I have heard road funds would be with held if states would not lower their limits to .08 or so.
The awb has shown everyone that police and military are worthy while law abiding citizens are not worthy. Heck I can dump all laws in here from full auto to shorty shotguns.
Oh and lets play with some of the state regs on registering guns, or transferring them through a dealer and whatever else.
The simple amount I pay in tax for legal income, legal gas purchase, and legal sales tax and whatever else legal I forgot. Oh, the cell phone tax sucks personally.
While some of my statements do not mean there is a police state, there are enough things on the books that I figure we are to the point that anyone can be brought up on charges if they upset the wrong person. I personally feel I can be pulled over for no reason and locked up for no reason simply becuase of how some of the ohio and fed laws for car stuff go.
We are not into checkpoints yet.
But don't ask me how free I feel since I personally feel like I have to decide for myself if I wish to follow the letter of the law, or be able to fend for myself.
And what about hunting license stuff and game wardens. Those seem out of hand as well.
I am done. I don't have to get to a checkpoint to leave my county but when the police can legally set up a seatbelt or dui checkpoint and check everyone, I sure don't feel free.
A phrase along the lines of when a recession is when others are poor and a depression is when you are poor would go like this: A police state would be when you are nailed by stupid laws and a verge on a police state would be when others are nailed by stupid laws.
The national seatbelt law, I think it went national since ohio finally has it now. Its a seatbelt folks, get over it.
Some of the national dui laws that get into alcohol limits and road funds, I have heard road funds would be with held if states would not lower their limits to .08 or so.
The awb has shown everyone that police and military are worthy while law abiding citizens are not worthy. Heck I can dump all laws in here from full auto to shorty shotguns.
Oh and lets play with some of the state regs on registering guns, or transferring them through a dealer and whatever else.
The simple amount I pay in tax for legal income, legal gas purchase, and legal sales tax and whatever else legal I forgot. Oh, the cell phone tax sucks personally.
While some of my statements do not mean there is a police state, there are enough things on the books that I figure we are to the point that anyone can be brought up on charges if they upset the wrong person. I personally feel I can be pulled over for no reason and locked up for no reason simply becuase of how some of the ohio and fed laws for car stuff go.
We are not into checkpoints yet.
But don't ask me how free I feel since I personally feel like I have to decide for myself if I wish to follow the letter of the law, or be able to fend for myself.
And what about hunting license stuff and game wardens. Those seem out of hand as well.
I am done. I don't have to get to a checkpoint to leave my county but when the police can legally set up a seatbelt or dui checkpoint and check everyone, I sure don't feel free.
DRZinn
Member
Another way to circumvent another Amendment, this time the Tenth. The federal government takes more money than it needs, then makes the return of the money to the states conditional (with the accompanying loss of x percentage as the money passes through the federal bureaucracy), thus having the effect of the federal government controlling things that should the responsibility only of the states.
Edward429451
member
Here's a little on it:
http://www.pbn.4mg.com/kitchenmilitia.htm
Here's another site with a lot of info on similar & related type stuff, but it seems to have been hacked. Maybe in a day or two it'll be back up.
http://tetrahedron.org/
.gov has a lot of really nasty stuff on the shelf. I'm not even talking about Aids & Ebola, that they created them is common knowledge now but from what I've heard, they've got stuff now that makes Aids look like a common cold.
Been real busy at work so I dont have time to go into greater detail at this point...
Baised on Mulder's List here's how the UK rates.
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What are the characteristics of a police state?
-- One set of rules for the elites and the enforcers, and another for the rest of us check (for the last 300+ years)
-- So many laws that anyone can be arrested for almost anything check
-- Shift from constitutional law to administrative law check
-- Eradication of jury system not yet but creeping in
-- Elimination of rights against illegal searches and seizure check (they just call them Lawfull Searches/Seasures now.)
-- Gov't able to detain people with filing charges check (look no further than govt making eg's of people who defend themsellves)
-- No accountability for gov't action check (look no further than the scandal over the iraq war)
-- The state has the authority to demand your 'papers' for no reason check
-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------
What are the characteristics of a police state?
-- One set of rules for the elites and the enforcers, and another for the rest of us check (for the last 300+ years)
-- So many laws that anyone can be arrested for almost anything check
-- Shift from constitutional law to administrative law check
-- Eradication of jury system not yet but creeping in
-- Elimination of rights against illegal searches and seizure check (they just call them Lawfull Searches/Seasures now.)
-- Gov't able to detain people with filing charges check (look no further than govt making eg's of people who defend themsellves)
-- No accountability for gov't action check (look no further than the scandal over the iraq war)
-- The state has the authority to demand your 'papers' for no reason check
-------------------------------------------------
CZ52GUY
Member
Well said...
...when Americans start getting in boats bound for Cuba, we'll know we're in trouble.
There are dangers, absolutely, but reckless hyperbole does not a compelling case make. We see the anti's use this tactic to scare people into calling for the surrender of arms. With truth on our side, I see no reason to resort to this tactic to rally folks to defend our arms.
Iraq under Saddam, North Korea, the Soviet Union and the client states, China, going back in time think Nazi Germany, Italy...there are numerous examples of actual Police States that bear little resemblence to the United States of America in 2004.
I lawfully own multiple rifles which accept full capacity and large capacity magazines. I lawfully own both standard capacity and large capacity magazines.
I lawfully own multiple pistols which accept full capactiy magazines. I lawfully own full capacity pistol magazines.
I vote my conscience in a secret ballot without fear or intimidation.
I express my views to elected leaders, without fear of retribution.
I express my views on this forum, without fear of retribution.
I lawfully carry a concealed firearm.
These are all activities that are not consistent with living in a "Police State".
Certainly there is cause for concern. Vigilence is absolutely necessary. But a mischaracterization of our present situation is not useful.
Our liberties are under a threat, but they have been since July 4, 1776. They will always be under a threat. But we haven't lost them yet, and I intend to do all I can to ensure they are not lost.
Stay safe, and rational,
CZ52'
...when Americans start getting in boats bound for Cuba, we'll know we're in trouble.
There are dangers, absolutely, but reckless hyperbole does not a compelling case make. We see the anti's use this tactic to scare people into calling for the surrender of arms. With truth on our side, I see no reason to resort to this tactic to rally folks to defend our arms.
Iraq under Saddam, North Korea, the Soviet Union and the client states, China, going back in time think Nazi Germany, Italy...there are numerous examples of actual Police States that bear little resemblence to the United States of America in 2004.
I lawfully own multiple rifles which accept full capacity and large capacity magazines. I lawfully own both standard capacity and large capacity magazines.
I lawfully own multiple pistols which accept full capactiy magazines. I lawfully own full capacity pistol magazines.
I vote my conscience in a secret ballot without fear or intimidation.
I express my views to elected leaders, without fear of retribution.
I express my views on this forum, without fear of retribution.
I lawfully carry a concealed firearm.
These are all activities that are not consistent with living in a "Police State".
Certainly there is cause for concern. Vigilence is absolutely necessary. But a mischaracterization of our present situation is not useful.
Our liberties are under a threat, but they have been since July 4, 1776. They will always be under a threat. But we haven't lost them yet, and I intend to do all I can to ensure they are not lost.
Stay safe, and rational
,CZ52'
braindead0
Member
But only certain socially acceptable views, the others will find you on the receiving end of some form of retribution or another.
Edward429451
member
Yeah, jus cause you have no fear of retribution doesn't mean it wont eventually come. Just that you have no fear of it!
There still working up the Psy-Pro's on us, you know how slow the wheels turn.
There still working up the Psy-Pro's on us, you know how slow the wheels turn.
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