rcmodel
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See post #48 & #57 about that.
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Primers in a jar?
- Thread starter gilgsn
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X-Rap
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I have decapped many live primers and never had one go off, I also have had some FTF due to light strikes so I contend that it takes quite a concentrated or massive impact to detonate a primer. This disscussion has prompted me to think about some further tests.
Any guess what quantity of primers is require to cause mass detonation from a drop?? How high?? Any specific brand??
Do you think I could put say a hundred live primers in a babyfood jar with the balance being spent ones and get a detonation of at least one live primer with a drop from 3',10', 20??
How many does it take to blow a 2' hole in a concrete floor??
Any guess what quantity of primers is require to cause mass detonation from a drop?? How high?? Any specific brand??
Do you think I could put say a hundred live primers in a babyfood jar with the balance being spent ones and get a detonation of at least one live primer with a drop from 3',10', 20??
How many does it take to blow a 2' hole in a concrete floor??
ReloaderFred
Member
I've had a primer column go off on two separate occasions on an automated Ammo Load machine. The first time was with a full column of primers, and the second time was with a nearly empty column. It will definately get your attention, and the full column will bulge the blast shield, drive the brass follower rod through the roof, and cause damage to the machine. It also scares the crap out of you.
We figured it was a buildup of primer compound powder in the area of the primer slide that was either set off by the friction of the slide moving back and forth, or a primer got cocked and was crushed by the movement of the primer slide.
The Ammo Load is a motor driven automatic loader, and is capable of high production, but when a bunch of primers go off, it's pretty startling, so say the least. Primers can go off without impact, but the conditions have to be right for it to happen.
I also routinely decap live primers without incident. I've been at this since 1963 and have roughly 800,000 rounds loaded so far, so I do have a little experience in this area.
Once again, I'll state to leave the primers in the packaging they come in, period. Use them as intended and all will be well. You don't want to be the one ejected from the gene pool...............
Hope this helps.
Fred
We figured it was a buildup of primer compound powder in the area of the primer slide that was either set off by the friction of the slide moving back and forth, or a primer got cocked and was crushed by the movement of the primer slide.
The Ammo Load is a motor driven automatic loader, and is capable of high production, but when a bunch of primers go off, it's pretty startling, so say the least. Primers can go off without impact, but the conditions have to be right for it to happen.
I also routinely decap live primers without incident. I've been at this since 1963 and have roughly 800,000 rounds loaded so far, so I do have a little experience in this area.
Once again, I'll state to leave the primers in the packaging they come in, period. Use them as intended and all will be well. You don't want to be the one ejected from the gene pool...............
Hope this helps.
Fred
jcwit
member
And once again we're back to primer compound dust. See post #56.
CollinLeon
member
I can see only one potential advantage of storing primers in a bulk container -- space savings. I suspect that a 1-qt plastic take-out food container could store a LOT of primers and if you labeled them (SP, SPM, LP, LPM, SR, SRM, LR, LRM), you would have a handy storage method while still keeping them separated by type.
The disadvantages completely outweigh this single advantage though.
I open up one tray of primers when my primer tube runs empty. I have primer tubes for each of the types of primers that I use, so if I finish reloading the brass that I have on hand and still have primers left, I just hang the primer tube up on a rack by the reloading press. I don't take the primers out of the tube and put them back in the tray.
I wonder how the major ammunition manufacturers handle their primers prior to them being inserted into the brass...
If they use primers from another source, do they also come in the same size trays that we buy them in? Considering the amount of ammunition that they product, I have to doubt that. They would have to be getting the primers in some sort of bulk container that would be more conducive to an automated process.
If they produce their own primers, then there must be some stage on an automated assembly line that feeds the primer cups one at a time, drops the primer compound in them, and then places the anvil there prior to forwarding the completed primer to the next spot on the line that puts the primer in the brass cartridge.
Is it possible that the primer compound is put in their wet so that it would not be explosive? I seem to remember reading an article where gunpowder had been stored wet for many years and when dried out, it worked as good as new. Don't remember if it was black powder or smokeless powder though...
The disadvantages completely outweigh this single advantage though.
I open up one tray of primers when my primer tube runs empty. I have primer tubes for each of the types of primers that I use, so if I finish reloading the brass that I have on hand and still have primers left, I just hang the primer tube up on a rack by the reloading press. I don't take the primers out of the tube and put them back in the tray.
I wonder how the major ammunition manufacturers handle their primers prior to them being inserted into the brass...
If they use primers from another source, do they also come in the same size trays that we buy them in? Considering the amount of ammunition that they product, I have to doubt that. They would have to be getting the primers in some sort of bulk container that would be more conducive to an automated process.
If they produce their own primers, then there must be some stage on an automated assembly line that feeds the primer cups one at a time, drops the primer compound in them, and then places the anvil there prior to forwarding the completed primer to the next spot on the line that puts the primer in the brass cartridge.
Is it possible that the primer compound is put in their wet so that it would not be explosive? I seem to remember reading an article where gunpowder had been stored wet for many years and when dried out, it worked as good as new. Don't remember if it was black powder or smokeless powder though...
X-Rap
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It seems like the incident in post 48 was never resolved and considering the fact that there are probably tens of thousands of aluminum pick up tubes that have processed millions of primers it is an anomaly close to the polar,grizzly and lightning strike.
The tube in 57? I don't know what that is, it seems large for a feed or pick up tube but there is nothing to scale it to but to me it is suspect.
I am truly interested in static and primer residue as the combination of the two seems the only plausible reason for detonation aside from those that would be obvious. I don't think that on their own either would set one of though.
The guy who had the pick up tube blow was no doubt injured and it points out that S happens and sometime we never know why.
Even this seems doubtful since I am under the impression/understanding that the business end of modern primers are sealed from moisture and solvents to some degree so it seems unlikely for particles to come loose though I have not proven this.
I also don't see residue in the shipping trays or flip trays.
The tube in 57? I don't know what that is, it seems large for a feed or pick up tube but there is nothing to scale it to but to me it is suspect.
I am truly interested in static and primer residue as the combination of the two seems the only plausible reason for detonation aside from those that would be obvious. I don't think that on their own either would set one of though.
The guy who had the pick up tube blow was no doubt injured and it points out that S happens and sometime we never know why.
Even this seems doubtful since I am under the impression/understanding that the business end of modern primers are sealed from moisture and solvents to some degree so it seems unlikely for particles to come loose though I have not proven this.
I also don't see residue in the shipping trays or flip trays.
ReloaderFred
Member
X-Rap,
The tube in post #57 is the blast shield that surrounds the actual primer tube. The primer tube was inside it when it blew. And there is a reason that progressive presses have blast shields, believe me. If you'd ever had the primer column go off on you, you'd fully appreciate the power in those little primers when combined. I have had them go off, twice. It was right there in front of my face, but fortunately, the press had both a blast shield around the primer column and a safety glass in front of the loading line. Both performed as designed, and the blast shield was destroyed in the first explosion, since it was a full column of primers.
I remember the post in #57, but don't remember what kind of press it was, since it was sometime back.
As for primer residue, it's yellow, and collects on automatic presses that load a lot of ammunition. Some machines are pretty rough on primers, jerking them back and forth in a primer slide, which is driven by an electric motor.
My incidents were first hand, and very personal. You can take it to the bank that primers will explode under some circumstances. I believe there is still a hole in the ceiling of the Kern County Sheriff's range house from that first explosion and the brass rod is somewhere up in that ceiling, since I never found it. That was in 1978, and I loaded roughly 160,000 rounds of .38 Special on that machine over the 2 1/2 years I was Rangemaster.
Hope this helps.
Fred
The tube in post #57 is the blast shield that surrounds the actual primer tube. The primer tube was inside it when it blew. And there is a reason that progressive presses have blast shields, believe me. If you'd ever had the primer column go off on you, you'd fully appreciate the power in those little primers when combined. I have had them go off, twice. It was right there in front of my face, but fortunately, the press had both a blast shield around the primer column and a safety glass in front of the loading line. Both performed as designed, and the blast shield was destroyed in the first explosion, since it was a full column of primers.
I remember the post in #57, but don't remember what kind of press it was, since it was sometime back.
As for primer residue, it's yellow, and collects on automatic presses that load a lot of ammunition. Some machines are pretty rough on primers, jerking them back and forth in a primer slide, which is driven by an electric motor.
My incidents were first hand, and very personal. You can take it to the bank that primers will explode under some circumstances. I believe there is still a hole in the ceiling of the Kern County Sheriff's range house from that first explosion and the brass rod is somewhere up in that ceiling, since I never found it. That was in 1978, and I loaded roughly 160,000 rounds of .38 Special on that machine over the 2 1/2 years I was Rangemaster.
Hope this helps.
Fred
ranger335v
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Priming compound is (usually) a yellowish cake and originally it did tend to produce a bit of explosive dust that could collect in auto priming tubes. I don't remember when the makers started sealing the compound with a lacqure like paint but that seems to have stopped the dusting a long time ago.
It's MUCH easier to ignite flammable vapors with a static discharge spark than it is to set off a primer.
I really don't know what the hazard of storing primers in a glass jar is but there are some and that's why primers don't come packaged in glass jars. THE safe storage solution is to leave them in the boxes designed for that job.
It's MUCH easier to ignite flammable vapors with a static discharge spark than it is to set off a primer.
I really don't know what the hazard of storing primers in a glass jar is but there are some and that's why primers don't come packaged in glass jars. THE safe storage solution is to leave them in the boxes designed for that job.
The primer tube in post 57 came from a Hornday LNL. The original post was on the accuratereloading forum. http://forums.accuratereloading.com/groupee
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