Problems with Bugler paper cartridges

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JayC

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I tried my homemade .44 paper cartridges yesterday for the first time, and beginning with the second cylinder, had some ignition problems. I was shooting a Pietta Remington New Army repro. The cartridges were made with Bugler papers and Goex FFFg. One chamber did not fire even after the third cap. (Hangfire precautions were observed.) Upon removing and inspecting the cylinder, I found some large pieces of unburnt paper lining the bottom (back) of a couple of chambers. After removing the paper residue, I had no further problems. Has anyone else experienced this?

The videos I have watched on Youtube have not mentioned this problem. I would like to know whether there is a better type of paper to use, and if so, please provide a source.
 
Although i've yet to 'roll my own', I do know that Buglers are a very thick paper from a smokers point of view.
ZIG-ZAG's are much thinner and ignite much quicker than Bugler's.
 
I'll see what I can find locally. I had read previously that Bugler worked best, but it won't hurt to try other brands if I can find them.

Thanks.
 
Mix some saltpeter with hot water and do a quick dip of your papers and let them dry before you cut and roll them. That will make the paper an oxidizer and it will combust much better. I found this when researching paper for making cartridges for my Podewils Lindner. Saltpeter can be easily procurred at your local harware in a can labeled "Stump Remover". I make my mix pretty stout (add the saltpeter to hot water until it doesn't want to dissolve when stirred) and keep it in a plastic coffee can for re-use. I recommend wearing some type of hand protection while dipping because it is a bit of a caustic mixture.
 
ive had the same problem with Zig-zag papers, but i only trim to length rather than width so theres a bit of an overlap. i run a small bottle brush into the cambers to get out any debris left over.

did you have a go at poking into it using a nipple pick?
 
Back in the day when I rolled my own I used to nipple pick the paper cartridges. Later on I just began to rupture the cartridge as I loaded it so powder was against the flash hole. I always carried a small set of tweezers to pick out unburned paper ("nitrated" by dipping in saturated KNO3 as described by Steelhorse Rider). I finally gave up on rolling my own because of the delayed ignition I would often get (popBOOM rather than just BOOM), no ignition, or paper residue in the chambers that would cause further ignition problems. I think truly nitrated paper is made with a combination of both nitric and sulfuric acid to create nitrocellulose. Now, THAT will burn up because it is basically a film of smokeless powder.

Reliability of functioning is more important to me than the speed of loading. As for CONVENIENCE, the paper cartridges are fine but I could never get them to a level of reliability I felt I could trust. It was fun to do for a while.
 
Pics or description of how you seal the "powder end" of your handrolls?

Twisted or folded, etc.

I tend to twist mine closed. I also usually tear off the tails to expose or dump the powder. Sometimes I just nip off the tail with a set of fingernail clippers.

Non-nitrated. Used to use Zig-Zags, then went to Buglers for cost, etc.
 
For my Podewils-Lindner cartridges I use some crafters contact cement and use a three step fold with the centers slightly overlapping. These are for a .560 dia bullet, I treat and cut my papers, then roll them over a mandrel made from 1/2" OD copper pipe built up with electrical tape to the desired diameter using a very thin line of the glue to seal the longitudinal seam. After they are dry I charge them with powder using the powder dispenser on my reloading bench and slide a mink oil lubed bullet into the end, sealing the paper/lead joint with a little smear of mink oil. The Podewils is a breech loaded rifle and there is usually a bit of the butt joint of the cartridge left but it is easily removed before loading the next round.
 
The only paper cartridges I've made, thus far, are for the 20 gauge howdah pistol (I love saying that :D).
I roll them with the white or brown paper used as packing material by Cabelas.
Then again, I tear off the end, dump the powder down the barrel, and then ram the rest home.
Obviously I'm of no help to you. I've thought about nitriding my howdah paper.
Shooting is much more fun than chasing bits of burning paper and stomping them out.

I've been thinking about buying some flash paper to use for paper carts.

Hell, dip the ends of yer paper carts in gasoline before loading. They'll surely ignite, then.
J/K-don't do that.
 
Hello, JayC. It has been years since I made paper ctg. for percussion revolvers..but you mentioned Youtube & I watched a couple demos.
Well...theres your problem! These guys are twisting the powder end closed...do they really expect that thick twisted piece of paper is going to burn away?
Here is how I made them. I turned up a tapered steel or brass mandril of proper dia. to allow ball to fit in large end...Wood would also work. You can make them un-tapered..but the straight ones don't fit into cyl. mouth as easy...also..being tapered..they will sometimes break inside cyl. chamber when seating..doing away with worry about cap flash setting off. I used cig. paper & rolled tubes.
When I had good supply of tubes..I then punched out round end caps..leather cutting punches are avail. at hardware stores or Harbor freight. I found a size that when slightly wet with glue (Elmers) would neatly form around end with about 1/16" overlap. For end caps..I sometimes used thin tracing paper. I also soaked paper in a super-saturated Saltpeter solution for complete burn up in cyl.
 
I use Buglers exclusively when I'm doing paper cartridges and found them to work best but....

I found early on that tearing the end off before stuffing it in the hole works best. Also I run a nipple pick through each chamber after shooting, even if I'm not using paper cartridges.

I shoot paper cartridges mainly when I'm going out on the bike and don't want to lug along all the stuff I usually do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G2zFzaDXxc
 
Thanks for the input!

Answering some of your questions, in no particular order: I twisted ends, then clipped with scissors initially. My buddy had a nail clipper in his car, so we tried shortening the twists with that after problems became evident. (Some of the Youtube videos used clippers.)

The pieces of paper I pulled from the chambers were not necessarily the twists, but sometimes just scraps of paper conforming to the sides of a chamber near the back. This may explain why some cartridges were more difficult to load after the first cylinder.

I saw some cartridges rupture as they were being loaded, some may not have. When I had a misfire, I did try puncturing the cartridges through the nipple using a straightened paper clip, but some would not puncture. Maybe I was hitting the twists on those.

I will be looking for other types/brands of paper around town.

Thanks for all the input.
 
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